WSJ article: 'Real Estate Industry Braces for Tax Upheaval'

WSJ article: 'Real Estate Industry Braces for Tax Upheaval'

Queens, NY · Member since 2014 · 153 posts · 64 votes

Has anybody else seen this article?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/real-estate-industry-b...

The general point is that while Trump's tax plan is silent on the subject, the GOP tax plan that has been gaining steam proposes eliminating deductions for state and local property taxes and eliminating the mortgage interest deduction for businesses (while preserving it for individuals).  The plan also calls for more than doubling of the standard deduction for taxpayers, which would eliminate the need/benefit to itemizing deductions (such as mortgage interest payments). Finally, the plan calls for eliminating or changing the depreciation expense for real estate companies and businesses. 

I've pasted a few key passages from the article below so you can get the gist.  This is radical stuff.  We're talking about potentially upending all of the main tax benefits of RE investing, which is the whole reason we do what we do.  In the most radical scenario where all of these deductions are eliminated, do people think the demand for buying RE will greatly decline on the whole?  Wouldn't the majority of people prefer to rent than to own if there's no tax advantages to owning?

There was also another article in the WSJ yesterday discussing how house flipping is back to all-time highs, matching the 2006 levels.  All of this makes me a bit nervous heading into 2017 and beyond.  A lot of uncertainty...

Here are some key passages from the article:

The GOP blueprint calls for the elimination of the deduction for state and local property tax. Industry executives also worry the plan could severely cripple the mortgage interest deduction—long considered a sacred cow of U.S. tax policy.

The blueprint proposal released in June said it would preserve the mortgage interest deduction. But it also would nearly double the standard deduction that taxpayers could receive, thus eliminating most itemized deductions. Mr. Trump proposed an even larger standard deduction.

“Because of the other provisions included in the new tax system, far fewer taxpayers will choose to itemize deductions,” says the Better Way proposal released in June.

The upshot, real-estate industry leaders worry, would be that fewer people would be incentivized to purchase homes, which would weigh on demand and possibly the broader economy.

The House proposal also would eliminate for all businesses the current deduction for debt interest payments. Leverage has long played a major role in most acquisitions of office buildings, stores, hotels and other commercial property in part because interest payments are tax deductible.

Another sea change in commercial real estate would be in the way the House blueprint would affect depreciation. Tax law currently allows buyers of rental apartment buildings to depreciate the cost over 27.5 years and other commercial real estate over 39 years.

The House plan would eliminate depreciation for real-estate companies as well as other businesses. Instead, buyers of real estate would be able to treat the entire cost of buying a property—excluding land—as a business expense that could be used to reduce income. If a buyer didn’t have enough income in the year they bought the building, they could be able to carry the expense forward into future years as a net operating loss.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y

The House plan would eliminate depreciation for real-estate companies as well as other businesses. Instead, buyers of real estate would be able to treat the entire cost of buying a property—excluding land—as a business expense that could be used to reduce income. If a buyer didn’t have enough income in the year they bought the building, they could be able to carry the expense forward into future years as a net operating loss

although I doubt this ever happens but this would sky rocket sales.. big earners would be looking for deals December would become the hottest month of the year.. and if there is no deprecation is there recapture?:  Recapture is always a beotch unless you 1031 till you die.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    The House plan would eliminate depreciation for real-estate companies as well as other businesses. Instead, buyers of real estate would be able to treat the entire cost of buying a property—excluding land—as a business expense that could be used to reduce income. If a buyer didn’t have enough income in the year they bought the building, they could be able to carry the expense forward into future years as a net operating loss

    although I doubt this ever happens but this would sky rocket sales.. big earners would be looking for deals December would become the hottest month of the year.. and if there is no deprecation is there recapture?:  Recapture is always a beotch unless you 1031 till you die.

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2014 · 153 posts · 64 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs yeah that was the one sentence that confused me.  If the idea is to remove loopholes why would they replace the depreciation expense with the ability to take the entire cost of the property as an immediate cost?  Doesn't make much sense, but I have a feeling the WSJ is misinterpreting that one.  

    My question about demand for RE was aimed more at mom and pop homeowners/renters.  Where's the incentive for them to own their home vs keep renting?

    At least where I live, it's already cheaper to rent than to buy, and that will be hugely exacerbated if tax benefits go away.

  • Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 215 posts · 129 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by :

    My question about demand for RE was aimed more at mom and pop homeowners/renters.  Where's the incentive for them to own their home vs keep renting?

    The biggest incentive to me as a current homeowner is when I move out, I get a big check for the difference between the home value and whatever is left on the mortgage.  When I rent, I might get a security deposit back (although the last apartment I rented between houses used a security bond that was non-refundable).

    The next incentive.....I can do whatever I darn well please.  Now keep in mind, we're not destructive.  But if I want to have 4 cars for 2 drivers, I have 4 cars.  If I want to let my brother move in for a month, the mortgage company doesn't care.  My son when he turns 18, the mortgage company doesn't care.

  • Real Estate Lender and Broker · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 966 posts · 500 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    The House plan would eliminate depreciation for real-estate companies as well as other businesses. Instead, buyers of real estate would be able to treat the entire cost of buying a property—excluding land—as a business expense that could be used to reduce income. If a buyer didn’t have enough income in the year they bought the building, they could be able to carry the expense forward into future years as a net operating loss

    although I doubt this ever happens but this would sky rocket sales.. big earners would be looking for deals December would become the hottest month of the year.. and if there is no deprecation is there recapture?:  Recapture is always a beotch unless you 1031 till you die.

     Jay,

    I would prefer they leave things alone.  Do you remember the effects of the 1986 tax law changes?  They eliminated double depreciation on commercial property and also changed the way investors could take write-offs by capping the loss for passive investors.  The 1986 changes destroyed the real estate market for a few years.  The RTC was created to deal with these changes.  I can see them doing something similar with these changes.

    Mark

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Mark Creason  I REMEMBER IT WELL.  I was working for a large syndicator at the time... ( this decades version of a crowdfunder). they had about 150 GPs set up and 1 billion in assets.

    The investors came in as different class... doctors taking all that tasty depreciation.. retired folks taking the cash flow and middle of the road folks taking half of each.. each GP had 3 class's

    well tax reform made the exit very painful and really put a wrench into things at that time.

    For me I have always liked Forbes idea of a nice 10% tax on everyone every thing and call it a day  LOL..

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2014 · 153 posts · 64 votes
    9y

    For those of you that want to read the fine print on this stuff, here's the direct link to the House of Representatives Ways and Means committee blueprint for tax reform published in June 2016.  I would guess a good number of these proposals have a chance of passing, given the GOP control of the White House and both chambers of Congress.

    https://waysandmeans.house.gov/taxreform/

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2014 · 153 posts · 64 votes
    9y
    I just read through this, and the House plan is indeed calling for elimination of depreciation of capital investment over time (including property) in favor of expensing the total cost immediately upfront. Anything not used in year one can be indefinitely carried forward and even indexed for inflation. They are also calling for eliminating the deduction of interest expense. I guess they want to incentivize investment in the real economy, rather than incentivizing taking on more debt. There's no mention of recapture but I have to imagine there's recapture or some type of capital gain when you sell the property. There's also no mention of 1031 exchanges. Very interesting stuff. I wonder how this impacts rental real estate if it passes.
  • Real Estate Lender and Broker · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 966 posts · 500 votes
    9y

    Eric,

    I think that eliminating the interest deduction will have devastating effects on the real estate market and the economy as a whole.  In 1986, the government changed the tax laws.  The RE industry used to have double depreciation.  We also used to be able to write off passive loses beyond the current annual $3000 cap.  These changes had a horrible effect on real estate prices.  The Savings and Loan scandal was greatly impacted by these changes.  In the late 1980s, the Dallas and Denver newspapers had whole sections listing foreclosures.  Both of these metro areas had over 10,000 foreclosures at one time in 1989.  The tax payers of this country bailed out these savings and loans for over half a billion dollars.

    I think the new administration has some misguided ideas on how to grow the economy, but eliminating interest deductions and 1031 exchanges are bad ideas.

    Mark

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