Thoughts on "plagiarizing" attorney prepared documents?

Question

Shalanna L. Pirtle · Answer

I'm not sure I can add much to what's already been said, other than to echo the thoughts of @Travis Thornton and @Kevin Harrison. As an attorney myself, I have had numerous clients tell me they'd like for me to prepare a document (form, contract, etc) that they can modify for later use, which is fine, as long as you know I may not be able to pick up the pieces after the storm. Just note that there is a reason you pay a professional to manage an issue/handle a matter on your behalf. He/she will be tuned in and looking for stuff that you may miss. At some point, this document may become outdated, or some loophole may pop up warranting a change to the form that you won't know about it. I believe in you personally doing the thing that you do best or an expert at, and surrounding yourself with a team to handle the rest. If you are happy with his work and service, you may be better served negotiating a lower rate, or some sort of sliding scale than trying to do this on your own and mucking something up.

Sarah Ziehr · Answer

A lot of people think they don't need to hire an attorney, then when they do come up against a problem, guess who they want to solve it???

I would have a talk with your attorney and find out a way to keep him party to the transaction, and if there is a way to lower the rate based on the amount of volume you do. $400 seems worth it to me, perhaps you can negotiate some of the title fees with your attorney once you go to sell these properties.

Travis Thornton · Answer

Having been a real estate attorney for 20 years, I've had clients modify documents I've created for a specific transaction and use them for other transactions.  The bought them and the documents are theirs to do with what they wish.  No morality or legality involved.  This happens both with full disclosure ("I want you to make a form for me that I can modify and use"), and without.  But it is most definitely a buyer beware situation, both with regard to you practicing law pro se (and many lawyers won't even represent themselves under the maxim "the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client"), and to your relationship with your lawyer.  I've had a number clients come back saying "I did this in that document and now I've got a problem.  Can you fix it?"  Maybe I'll be willing to take that on and maybe I won't, depending on my relationship with the client.  Also, I've been in the uncomfortable position of having to effectively rat one partner client out to its other partners when a partner "goes rogue" by creating or modifying documents himself.

Kevin Harrison · Answer

Maybe you should just have a talk with your lawyer and ask him what he thinks, and how he would feel about it. Obviously this will vary greatly depending on your relationship with your lawyer. But it cant hurt to sit down with him, tell him what you want to do and why/how, and see what he says. He may tell you if you have done several of these with him to go ahead and possibly a smaller fee just for him to look them over after you have made your changes. Or he might tell you that if you do this he will no longer work with you, at which point you will have to decide which path you want to take.

David Dachtera · Answer

@Brandon Hicks,

Ask your own attorney about "form" documents. These are documents the attorney has prepared which are defensible in court and which have only the parties, property addresses, etc. left blank. The typical locally-approved offer form is one example.

Agents and brokers typically have such forms for their business in the areas where they have dealings. They cannot materially change the document or any of its provisions, and changes such as strike-outs must be approved or otherwise "blessed" by a qualified professional. Provisions added at the request of the parties must, of course, be done by some one who can legally do so.

David J Dachtera

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."- DJ Benedict

Franklin Romine · Answer

The attorney should be ok with you tweaking the documents.  If they are not cool it with it then find a new attorney that is more confident working with you.

We need people our team that share information and have complete transparency.  We will all become better.

Franklin

Brandon Hicks · Answer

Yeah, I don't disagree with the opinions here. Obviously not, since I've paid for him to do about a dozen of them so far when I could've easily filled in the blanks. The question arose more while I was writing a chapter in the book Ive been writing on doing no-cash-down land contracts. I was just wondering if my thinking was inline with most of the community...the ethical community that is!

Jeff B. · Answer

Like what I see from everyone. The direct approach (asking) demonstrates your ethics and as the variations are typically "fill-in-the-blanks", I would venture you would get the consent.

Brandon Hicks · Answer

Thanks for the responses so far guys. I'm still not sure that id want to modify them but I like the idea of looking into legal zoom.

Steve Haight · Answer

@Brandon Hicks

I have always learned from the professionals I hire around me. Can not that document be duplicated or close to it, like how close could you come to it in Legal Zoom.  Depends on how your attorney feels, I have had outsourced many things and then learned how to do it on my own. If there is a will there is a way.

Thoughts on "plagiarizing" attorney prepared documents?

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