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Updated over 8 years ago, 07/24/2016
DETROIT and MICHIGAN (#1 Defender answers questions)
@Account Closed
I Live in Detroit. I proudly live in Detroit. But for the past couple of threads about my fine city I’ve stayed silent to see which direction it would go; but I’m back to answer any questions you may have about Detroit or Michigan. I’ll also answer some of the questions that weren’t completely answered or defended in other threads. I tagged the people that have asked me questions.
What do you think of Michigan
What do you think of Detroit?
Thanks for the advice Richard. I've send you message.
Could anyone share some of your opinions?
Thanks
Originally posted by @Janann Chan:
Thanks for the advice Richard. I've send you message.
Could anyone share some of your opinions?
Thanks
If you are investing from HK(my wife's family is from Shenzhen), you see the cheap houses and are tempted. Some people here on BP might say I'm a Detroit Cheerleader, then some might even say I'm an "Elitest". But I just care about making money. I know some people on BP working the neighborhoods in Detroit and are doing well. I frankly don't have the stomach for it. I like my tenants to be tech savvy paying their rent, or repair reimbursements receipts via Online Bill Pay, Corresponding completely via Text, Messenger Services. I go months at a time without seeing or speaking to my tenants. I know at this point my business model won't work lots of Detroit neighborhoods. It doesn't work in lots of Detroit suburbs.
I love the Woodward Corridor, thats my thing. I advocate for the "7.2" thats the Downtown and Greater Downtown Area in terms of sq miles. I believe the best value is in the larger older homes. These properties can be cut 2-4 or more ways. I see the value in the $70K-150K range in terms of money you will be into a property before you collect rent. Why?
1) You bought the property at a much lower price, the Property will go up in value immediately as you start improving it.
2) You own the Property outright most likely, meaning no mortgage.
3) You generate great cash. Realistically, 75K-150K will generate 1300-4000K a month.
4) You have a large possible tenant base. These people make enough money to live anywhere in Metro Detroit, they are curious about The City. They have easy to verify income, and you as a landlord can provide large living spaces, in-unit laundry, and throw-ins such cable or internet. So people make the decision do I want a 2 bedroom condo in Royal Oak for $900/mo thats 700 sq ft w/shared laundry, or a 1100 sq ft flat in Detroit that includes Heat for $1000. 10 years ago RO won even though that Detroit unit was probably $600(I went to Wayne State and lived on and off campus for 3 years). Because there is just a semblance of jobs and economic activity people are giving Detroit a shot, but in limited concentrated areas.
5) You get a chance to really see how to function effectively in a place where dysfunction is normal. You really learn about taking ownership of something. At my other homes in other cities the sidewalks are always shoveled, the grass gets cut, the street gets cleaned, etc. At my Detroit units, my street may be dirty, but sometimes you have to get out there and clean it yourself, because ultimately its your property, and no one is going to drive by and say "Wow the street in front of that house is clean, or the that house's yard is always cut", they will drive-by and see your neighbor next to you(or vacant lot in many cases ) that is unkempt, and it verifies what they believe/see about Detroit.
6) Lots of older people and families have held onto property for years in the City, and I haven't personally been able to benefit, but I have friends and associates where they fixed up a property on a street, and a neighbor will approach them about taking their's for a very reasonable price. They know a bank won't loan against it, and they don't want the house vacant and the scrappers get to it, so they see someone who bought and invested in the neighborhood they rather you have it than anyone else.
Thanks a lot for the detailed information Christian. Shenzhen is just next to HK. So is Birwood street in Belmont area a good location for investment based on your understanding? Thanks.
Originally posted by @Janann Chan:
Thanks a lot for the detailed information Christian. Shenzhen is just next to HK. So is Birwood street in Belmont area a good location for investment based on your understanding? Thanks.
I would say thats not a great area. Your information is slightly conflicting too. Belmont Neighborhood is west of M-10(Lodge Freeway) vs Birwood is located east of the Lodge for lots of Detroit. 1 mile makes a big difference in Detroit, major streets or freeways make a huge difference.
Birwood is nicer going North towards Mumford HS, and Bates Academy that area around Marygrove is always well maintained. Anything South of Fenkell or Lyndon is pretty rough.
I would say anything on Fenkell(aka 5 Mile) is pretty bad until you get to Rosedale Park.
It's 4 mins drive to Marygrove college and 5 mins drive the University of Detroit Mercy.
Originally posted by @Janann Chan:
It's 4 mins drive to Marygrove college and 5 mins drive the University of Detroit Mercy.
Those minutes mean a lot in Detroit! (Neighborhoods change in 3 blocks and less)
Is that your house in your profile picture? If it is in Hong Kong you could buy 10% of Detroit for the price of that one house. (well not quite)
@Janann Chan @Christian Hutchinson
As Christian mentioned, Birwood east of M-10 has good spots. Stay north of 5/6 mile (fenkell/mcnichols). I prefer mcnichols and up. Even then you have to evaluate the block.
It is a $10,000 house at best with the current tenant being evicted.
I gave her 7 additional reasons why it is not feasible.
thanks a lot for the advice Richard. : ) . really appreciate your time.
Originally posted by @Richard Dunlop:
It is a $10,000 house at best with the current tenant being evicted.
I gave her 7 additional reasons why it is not feasible.
I'm curious about the additional reasons if you have time to share!
Originally posted by @Jennifer Streamer:
Originally posted by @Richard Dunlop:
It is a $10,000 house at best with the current tenant being evicted.
I gave her 7 additional reasons why it is not feasible.
I'm curious about the additional reasons if you have time to share!
It's about 2 miles from what I would call the start of the Belmont neighborhood, she was given wrong info.
The roof while not terribly old had lots of sags and low spots I'm sure they were not planning to correct this in their renovation.
It is North of Fenkell but in that small area South of Fenkell is more stable but neither is good.
I talked to six different people in the neighborhood all have hopes but it is a rough neighborhood and probably bottomed out. But definitely not stable enough for an out of country investor.
Current eviction still ongoing.
There are way better ways to invest in Detroit RE than to buy a SFR and hope for the best.
If I'm buying in a marginal neighborhood, I'll require 2 nice well kept houses next door, across the street, across the alley that the owners are glad I'm buying the vacant house and will watch it for me. There were NONE!
@Janann Chan; @Richard Dunlop; @Jennifer Streamer
Richard- you are so right about better ways to invest in Detroit.
Jaanan, believe me, as a foreign investor like yourself, I've been there and nearly made those mistakes. ( In fact from your questions, I wouldn't be surprised if its the same turn key company trying to sell you this property, that I used for my first 2 properties. I wont be going back to them.)
Be very careful, Detroit is a not for every investor and definitely not for every foreign investor. Richard defenitly saved you a whole lot of money and heartache.
Thanks for sharing again Richard and Saul.
Hi Saul, mind to send me PM and let me know the agent that you used for the first two perperties? So I can avoid? What's your experience in Detroit? Thanks
Originally posted by @Janann Chan:
Thanks for sharing again Richard and Saul.
Hi Saul, mind to send me PM and let me know the agent that you used for the first two perperties? So I can avoid? What's your experience in Detroit? Thanks
No problem glad to do it. Don't quit on Detroit, but I just don't think Turn Key in Detroit is the best way to go. With Turn Key you are likely giving away 80%-90% of the deal without knowing it.
Since the Turn Key provider is paid up front, it is possible their attention to your purchased property would lessen over time. (Yes even if they are still the PM)
Lots of incredible opportunities here.
Detroit has been very good to me!
Richard, thanks for this incredible education. After visiting Detroit for the first time last month, it wasn't the blight that struck me... it was the opportunity to be a part of meaningful change in the city and profiting from it simultaneously.
Originally posted by @Michael Harris:
Richard, thanks for this incredible education. After visiting Detroit for the first time last month, it wasn't the blight that struck me... it was the opportunity to be a part of meaningful change in the city and profiting from it simultaneously.
Did you see our neighborhoods that are nicer than Beverly Hills while you were here?
When I first came up here i was shocked to find it wasn't one tenth as bad as I was expecting!
It has gotten much better but some of the reports are sounding worse.
Most everybody that actually visits is impressed with the city and the suburbs.
You forgot about little ole me.
Im a heavy anti detroit person, but for things completely unrelated to the properties themselves.
There are no JOBS in detroit relative to other major population centers to mention. Sure you may have a few one off names, but the overwhelming historical fact is that detroit was a manufacturing hub, and those all shipped over seas, or out of state due to not having their personal favors and tax sanctuaries put in place.
Also, hows the police force in detroit? Is it still cut by 70%, or did they finally get the funds to fix that? The bankruptcy? Hows that gone for the city? Is that "enter at your own risk" sign still up at the city limits?
Overall, detroit and the immeditely surrounding region simply isnt safe, criminally, or financially.
When most banks wont lend but a small portion of their funds to a major region, there is a parade of red flags as to why.
Also, any place I can trade a house for an Ipad is no place for me.
@Scott K.
LOL!
I wouldnt mind a ride along to see the city. im sure I could find at least one property worth buying out of the entire deathtrap that is detroit if we look hard enough. id only ever buy an MFU though.
Originally posted by @Logan Hicks:
You forgot about little ole me.
Im a heavy anti detroit person, but for things completely unrelated to the properties themselves.
There are no JOBS in detroit relative to other major population centers to mention. Sure you may have a few one off names, but the overwhelming historical fact is that detroit was a manufacturing hub, and those all shipped over seas, or out of state due to not having their personal favors and tax sanctuaries put in place.
Also, hows the police force in detroit? Is it still cut by 70%, or did they finally get the funds to fix that? The bankruptcy? Hows that gone for the city? Is that "enter at your own risk" sign still up at the city limits?
Overall, detroit and the immeditely surrounding region simply isnt safe, criminally, or financially.
When most banks wont lend but a small portion of their funds to a major region, there is a parade of red flags as to why.
Also, any place I can trade a house for an Ipad is no place for me.
Logan,
Try not to believe what you read. All be it your comments are factual, they are not reality. I have listed/sold 3500 REO's in the city. Most of which were in the day that the junk area's were worth 50k. I have been to DC and Baltimore and flipped a few row homes. The area you are from is much different in flow and values. Think out of the box when you consider Detroit. Richard Dunlop comes from an area much like yours in CA and instantly saw the value Detroit can and will be. Will be interesting to here the rederick on this forum in 3-5 years about how wished I bought Detroit RE. As I remember the DC area was much the same condition in the 90's. Now you have a hard time finding junk row homes in the SE are for under 150k.
Originally posted by @Ron Walraven:
Logan,
Try not to believe what you read. All be it your comments are factual, they are not reality. I have listed/sold 3500 REO's in the city. Most of which were in the day that the junk area's were worth 50k. I have been to DC and Baltimore and flipped a few row homes. The area you are from is much different in flow and values. Think out of the box when you consider Detroit. Richard Dunlop comes from an area much like yours in CA and instantly saw the value Detroit can and will be. Will be interesting to here the rederick on this forum in 3-5 years about how wished I bought Detroit RE. As I remember the DC area was much the same condition in the 90's. Now you have a hard time finding junk row homes in the SE are for under 150k.
Hey Ron. I see your listings all over the place. You are also involved in one of the local investment groups.
Originally posted by @Richard Dunlop:
Originally posted by @Michael Harris:
Richard, thanks for this incredible education. After visiting Detroit for the first time last month, it wasn't the blight that struck me... it was the opportunity to be a part of meaningful change in the city and profiting from it simultaneously.
Did you see our neighborhoods that are nicer than Beverly Hills while you were here?
When I first came up here i was shocked to find it wasn't one tenth as bad as I was expecting!
It has gotten much better but some of the reports are sounding worse.
Most everybody that actually visits is impressed with the city and the suburbs.
I live in Los Angeles and previously lived in Beverly Hills near Cedars Sinai. While Indian Village and Boston Edison are breathtakingly beautiful, they're still a half-step behind Beverly Hills. That said, who's counting steps when you're talking about mansions listed at $300k? Yes, I was shocked to find that the bad parts of Detroit were even worse than I imagined in some parts of the city... and, more importantly, that the good parts were actually much, much better. I could easily see myself having my primary residence in Detroit if... and this is a big if... the economy continues to improve and the greater downtown continues to experience growth.
Originally posted by @Logan Hicks:
@Scott K.
LOL!
I wouldnt mind a ride along to see the city. im sure I could find at least one property worth buying out of the entire deathtrap that is detroit if we look hard enough. id only ever buy an MFU though.
I flagged Scott for you since your flag didn't appear to take,
But I don't think it will do any good at all. His RE dreams seemed to have died with one or two houses. Last I saw he was living in one of the poor down river communities he used to scorn.
I wish him the best but I think his last post was in this thread telling me my strategies wouldn't work. He is still invited to tour my neighborhoods with me as I had invited him earlier in this thread.
Originally posted by @Michael Harris:
I think you're pretty perceptive. That's what I tell people about Detroit proper, that it is both better and worse than you expect. Truly a tale of two (really, more) cities within the city of Detroit.
On the bright side, here's an article from the Washington Post about some nice restaurants popping up around the city. There's definitely a buzz now, with local and "imported" entrepreneurs coming in and doing their thing. There's a sense that you can make things happen here, be the big fish in a smaller pond type of thing, and the local entrepreneurial community is very supportive of each other.
There are really nice and really bad areas here, and everything in between. I would not recommend investing from afar unless one is very astute. There are way too many pitfalls if you treat this like "normal" investing.
Hi friends. Its been a while. :)