Philadelphia contractor advice: Bathroom renovation

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Philadelphia contractor advice: Bathroom renovation

Account Closed
Investor · Philadelphia , PA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes

Hey BP,

I am renovating a small bathroom (typical Philly row) and I'm thinking of leaving the tub and wall tile (needs a good cleaning) and replacing the vanity, sink, floor (install tile) and toilet. The more I look at the bathroom I may just do tile and toilet. My friend hooked me up with his contractor who has done outstanding work at my friends personal residence. The contractor wants to charge me $200 a day for labor and I'm required to pay for all supplies. The contractor stated he is unable to determine the exact amount of time it will take to finish the job because he's unsure of what he will uncover when removing tile etc. I've heard this a lot lately from contractors and feel as if it's code for... "I have five days off from work and therefore I need to stretch this job out for 5 days to make $1000." Now I will admit, this is something that I am not proficient at and maybe over time I will be apologizing for this post... but as of now I'm just not good at knowing how long a project will take and if a contractor is just stretching the job out. Add the fact that I work full time, so the contractor can work 4 hours or 12 hours and I will never know. I also hate not knowing how hard the contractor is working when I'm not there. One day I was at the property and just talking to one of my other contractors as he worked. I was amazed at how hard he was working and knew that if I was not there to see him working that I would not have realized the great work and effort he put towards his work. 

Any advice BP? 

$200 a day labor expensive for rental property? 

Unknown finish date for small bathroom project reasonable?

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Joe White
Property Manager · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 515 posts · 196 votes
9y

That is commonplace and it does make sense...he's right - in that type of job, he has no idea what he will find. A bathroom project I was involved, not long ago, we found the predecessor had cut the floor joists to more easily fit the tub pipes. Obviously, you'r going to want some floor joists under a tub full of water - especially if you're in it. One approach might be to get a "not to exceed price"; but clearly define what its should cost and clearly define what it could cost. Otherwise, should becomes could.

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  • Bridgette Washington
    Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 2 votes
    9y

    It doesn't take more than a couple of days to do a simple lay out of tile especially if you're not replacing most of it.  Since walls are not coming down there shouldn't be any real "unknowns".  And yes I'd be skeptical about a contractor who can't tell you how long a basic tile job costs.  

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Investor · Philadelphia , PA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Bridgette Washington Thanks for the response. 

    0Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Account Closed. What this sounds like is someone who is unsure of what their capabilities are. If he were sure he would have said something like "Two days tops but I cant guarantee what's under that floor once we pull it up. But if nothings wrong there 400 bucks + material  will get you fixed up."

    As a contractor myself you just don't start a job off in the negative when you have no clue what's under the floor. Sure you mention it might be a problem but you as a homeowner are looking at a solution and an alternate plan if things go wrong. You deserve that because you are paying for it.

    NEVER give your client a complete question mark. That is a sure sign of unprofessionalism.

    2Reply
  • Scott C.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 142 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    If he's only pulling up old tile and replacing, I don't know what he expects to find? Maybe water damage? I did a powder room, approx. 15 sq. ft., and it took me about a week. BUT, that is no where near a 40 hour week. It took me about 2 hours to get up the old sticky tiles down to the sub floor (using a heat gun you can fly through it). Putting down thinset and backerboard, about 3 hours. THEN you have to wait at least 24 hours for that to set. Come back and lay out and cut tiles (If you are tiling your floor), apply your tile thinset and place your tiles, about 8 hours. WAIT another 24 - 48 hours for that to set. Finish with grout. 

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 19 votes
    9y
    In my opinion it should take 8-9 hours for a contractor with experience in tiles. We just finished a project like this and it took 1 of my guys 8 hours to finish it. Of course: 7 hours the first day (removing the old tiles, remove substrate, remove plywood, install new plywood, new backer board, install tiles) and 1 hour the second day(to grout it and reinstall baseboard). So it's possible. Tip for DIYers: if there's no power in the house or you don't have a heat gun, use dry ice blocks and the vinyl tiles will come off very easy.
    1Reply
  • Sid Leibowitz
    Contractor · Glen Cove, NY · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 89 votes
    9y

    I would ask for a contract price and not an hourly rate that agrees  with your budget and you are wiling to pay if you do not trust them. This way you do not have sticker shock at the end of the job and you are prepared and comfortable with the completed price. You should know what the finish price is. The amount of time spent appears not too important. 

    2Reply
  • Joe White
    Property Manager · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 515 posts · 196 votes
    9y

    That is commonplace and it does make sense...he's right - in that type of job, he has no idea what he will find. A bathroom project I was involved, not long ago, we found the predecessor had cut the floor joists to more easily fit the tub pipes. Obviously, you'r going to want some floor joists under a tub full of water - especially if you're in it. One approach might be to get a "not to exceed price"; but clearly define what its should cost and clearly define what it could cost. Otherwise, should becomes could.

    4Reply
  • Paulette Midgette
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 344 posts · 276 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed, I agree with Joe White.  My boyfriend and I completed a full rehab with a contractor in Collegeville, who charged $200 per day with me buying the materials.  They way I handled the unknown was I asked for an estimate of the work hours of what could be seen and we scheduled on a price.  We agreed that any unknown that came up he would contact me or my boyfriend before doing any work.  Also, my boyfriend was on site most of the time so this helped.

    Also, would you be willing to share your contractor's contact information?  I have a bathroom reno at my primary residence (it is a row in Philly so the size is probably equivalent to your bathroom).

    0Reply
  • Sid Leibowitz
    Contractor · Glen Cove, NY · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 89 votes
    9y

    Joe's "not to exceed price" is a good idea also. I would try to have the contractor give a lump sum labor price and be aware that this could go on materials delivered to the site or is the contractor picking up the materials. How would the materials get to the site? Is there a delivery charge. Would the contractor pick them up for no charge? or a charge? If there are multiple vendors is it cheaper to have the contractor do the logistics and unloading after you pay the vendor? Also, Who will unload the trucks, do a piece count and damage report and secure materials. The materials must arrive in usable condition i.e. sheet rock that arrives broken and has to be repaired will cost more in labor or is the contractor repairing for free or rejecting and returning on the delivery if you go that route?  Some contractors charge for this. Be aware that every function and movement that requires labor or supervision comes with a cost and affects the total job cost. Be aware.    

    1Reply
  • Mark Redmann
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 177 posts · 80 votes
    9y

    Paul Gimbel, replying from my phone somehow doesn't allow me to tag anyone.. 

    Anyway, PM me if you want a good contractor. He's specifically a tile guy. I'm not sure if he would do other things. Worth a shot.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Investor · Philadelphia , PA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    9y
    Amazing replies and messages sent! Thank you BP. Taking all comments and suggestions into consideration...I've decided to utilize someone to install the tile and my plumber/handyman to instal the vanity and toilet. Both individuals are giving me a price for their work and I'm supplying the materials.
    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Investor · Philadelphia , PA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    9y
    Mark Redmann thanks. I'll message you.
    0Reply
  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Joe White is correct. You and contractor won't really know the full scope until you pull up the old floor. 

    If the old tile is a laminate/vinyl (not ceramic) it could mean that you are lacking a proper subfloor for real tile. Something like that can easily add a full day of work to a bathroom job.

    Agree to pay him a day for demolition, and then revisit the conversation once everything is exposed.

    2Reply
  • Joe White
    Property Manager · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 515 posts · 196 votes
    9y

    @Max T. I like Max's approach and it makes sense.... Make your intentions clear, so he keeps pricing down as a "package" for all the expected work; but just have him take it to the point where an assessment/estimate can be relied upon.  

    1Reply
  • Dallas J Landis
    Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    8y


    Hi there, I think a proper planning requires to renovate the bathroom. I am also planning to renovate my bathroom and want to install walk in bathtub for my aunt who is disabled. While discussing with my neighbor, he suggested me to visit this link for buying walk in the bath tub. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    0Reply
  • Manolo D.
    Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Dallas J Landis These posts are like from 10 months ago. Do you have a specific question?
    0Reply
  • Alyse Oz
    Member since 2018 · 60 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    I’m also looking for a contractor... I’d appreciate recommendations.  Also are these insured contractors? What happens if they get hurt?

    0Reply
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