Getting my wife on board
Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 0 votes
My wife is of the Dave Ramsey thinking and continually states that debt is dumb and wanting to borrow money to purchase real estate is somehow immoral. I planned to BRRRR some properties since our primary residence is almost paid off. Her family grew up poor so she is very controlling of the money. I am the only income source in the family and she is a stay at home mom. I have tried to get her to read various books but she says I'm just being greedy and refuses to try to see my point of view. What did it take for any of you to get your spouse on board?
My advice which might not be popular is to take care of your student debt first. You don't want that liability. Then you will have more disposable income and she may feel better. My wife and I also used Financial Peace University to get out of debt and start investing in the stock market. I am now diversifying and also investing in real estate. @Tyler Gibson gave me some great advice. Get your spouse on board before you buy a single property. I try to slip my wife tidbits whenever I can. She has only heard the real estate horror stories and none of the benefits of investing in real estate. I am convincing her that I am educating myself, I plan to have experienced people around me, and I let her know that all the pod casts, YouTube videos and books talk about the mistakes people have made and how to avoid them. The kicker for her was when I told her how much money we had in the stock market and letting her know that if she can trust me with X in the stock market, she can trust me with Y in real estate. Good luck, try to build up her confidence and please realize that your marriage is more important.
I try to explain to people who are scared of debt that money in the bank is only good for 1 thing. 1 thing only...SPENDING. Cash is a vehicle that has value that you spend on goods and services. However, if you spend it on a tangible cash flowing asset you become the bank and it will pay you indefinitely. Your money in the bank is actually losing value due to inflation. Borrowing money from a bank for an investment property is great because it will keep up or exceed inflation, cash flow, but most importantly allow you to leverage your cash to control an asset you couldn't afford.100k in the bank is going to earn a laughable amount of interest and you will likely just spend it over the years or it will lose its value. 100k down on a 400k investment property though...thats 100 times better than cash in the bank. Tax benefits, equity pay down from tenants. Basically your tenants save money for you by paying your mortgage.
and then the real icing on the cake...appreciation. If all you ever do is save cash...you will need a few million to retire comfortably. then you will use it up and not have anything to pass down. My brother is similar and HATES debt. Debt is the best tool you've ever had available to you. the old school way of thinking is what keeps us in the wheel. keeps us poor, paycheck to paycheck.
I'm not going to disagree with any of the above, but your wife seems to be coming at this from the emotional side of things not the intellectual/learning side. My wife is similar and when we went through the first 3 baby steps, she really couldn't exist with only $1,000 baby emergency fund. After the debt, she couldn't be satisfied with the 3-6 months worth either. I gave her a big round number that was closer to the 1 year mark. We have a $20,000 emergency fund and we also replaced the roof, one of the most expensive things that can go wrong with the house. Only after that, she did feel secure enough to let any additional savings go towards me saving for real estate. If investing for retirement in an IRA makes sense, what about investing for before retirement was my main stand point. I acknowledged her fears, gave her what she NEEDED to feel safe and I think that really helped us in our partnership. Now I am shopping for my first rental without her support. That's my path anyways. Hope this helps.
I have tried reading sections verbatim from various financial and real estate books. An intellectual argument always fails. I make a lot of money, but I also have a lot of student loan debt. Initially She made me agree that I wouldn’t try to do any real estate investing until my student loan debt was paid off. That likely won’t happen for about 3-4 more years. I just feel bad sitting around and I have serious FOMO.
I feel for you brother! Having been through similar relationship issues, plus a divorce, I've got some advice for you. It sounds like she's afraid of losing her home and winding up poor (like you alluded to). Here's my advice... save up a small amount of money separate from your marital savings and try wholesaling. Do deals that don't involve taking on debt. It sounds like your wife doesn't want to be involved in real estate, so my advice is not to put her in that position. Until you have a *real business model, don't do it.
And for the love of God stop reading sections of financial books to her "verbatim." Read her a poem or the description of the vacation rental you're taking her to. Guess what? There will always be real estate out there...a good marriage is hard to find.
Similar to finding money for a deposit on your first investment, getting on the same page with your spouse is absolutely critical to your success. Nothing is more expensive and fraught with unforeseen costs and generational havoc than divorce. This is to be avoided even more than foreclosure. Real Estate Training events, where they give a discount for a spouse or allow them to come at no charge, is definitely a way to begin to get on the same page. The idea that you can do this on your own, secretively without your spouse ever finding out is absolutely foolhardy. So find a training event in a location where your spouse has always wanted to visit, like Orlando or Phoenix or something similar. Make a deal that you will only attend part of the training and spend the rest of the time in the Magic Kingdom or something. This is an investment that will pay great dividends. Discover your spouse's gifts and see if you can get them fully deployed in your real estate business. Maybe it is interior design, maybe it is developing rapport with tenants, maybe it is shopping for replacement items in your rentals for expensive repairs, but you have to get on the same page. If you do, you will become an unstoppable team. It also sounds like you need to prove to your spouse that there is such a thing as "good debt." Distinguish between good debt which earns you more than it costs each month and bad debt, such as credit card debt that sucks your life away. When you think about it, rental property is really a forced savings plan, each month you are paying off principal, actually, your tenant is paying off principle, and they are also paying the debt service, and then there should also even some positive cash flow left over for your family to go out to dinner on occasion. You are looking for the win, win, win!
My advice which might not be popular is to take care of your student debt first. You don't want that liability. Then you will have more disposable income and she may feel better. My wife and I also used Financial Peace University to get out of debt and start investing in the stock market. I am now diversifying and also investing in real estate. @Tyler Gibson gave me some great advice. Get your spouse on board before you buy a single property. I try to slip my wife tidbits whenever I can. She has only heard the real estate horror stories and none of the benefits of investing in real estate. I am convincing her that I am educating myself, I plan to have experienced people around me, and I let her know that all the pod casts, YouTube videos and books talk about the mistakes people have made and how to avoid them. The kicker for her was when I told her how much money we had in the stock market and letting her know that if she can trust me with X in the stock market, she can trust me with Y in real estate. Good luck, try to build up her confidence and please realize that your marriage is more important.
@Robert Wright
Your plight was brought to my attention by a fellow investor who knows my story.
My wife and I are Christians and she works at our church. She too believed that debt is bad.
First, the Old Testament does speak to debt, however not on the side of incurring it. It speaks to charging interest to others who are in need. (IE: don’t take advantage of a person who is in need.) NOWHERE in the Bible does it say not to use debt.
It also speaks to the behaviors of a woman of virtue in Proverbs 31. (She appraised a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.) I recommend you tread lightly with this one, though.
Things that might help:
1.) Get your financial house in order first. Work together through this. Monthly, review your savings, income, and where your money went. Treat your house like a business and have a monthly review at minimum.
2.) Define your goals. After you start working through 1 on a regular basis you’ll know what your monthly costs are. Work together to define a safety net. 6 months is a good place.
3.) Pay down existing debt - notably the student loans. Right now you’re paying interest on your money. You will absolutely struggle to get your wife on board because to her it means more debt (bad!!)
4.) Living beneath your means will eventually become habit. You’ll say things like “we can’t afford that.” There will come a tipping point where discipline is needed. Notably, when “we can’t afford it” really means “we can’t afford to stop our trajectory.”
5.) There will come a point when it will feel like savings isn’t growing quickly. At first, saving $100 a week adds up, but you’ll eventually hit a point where that $100 is a really small percent of your “nut.”
6.) If you’ve continued to educate yourself on real estate throughout this whole process and talk about it, you’ll find yourself in a position to say “now what” but you’ll have already answered that.
7.) The first turning point for us was when we went on vacation and drove there. My wife and I traded an hour of listening time. Her music for an hour then my choice for an hour, on the road there and on the road back. (Yup, I got my wife to listen to almost 12 hours of BP podcasts.)
8.) Does your wife believe that landlords are greedy people who get rich off the backs of others? Mine did. Did. Past Tense.
When we bought the house, the woman who lived there had flashlights EVERYWHERE. She couldn’t get up a step to change the lightbulbs. She didn’t have money to fix the roof. The wood siding was starting to rot. She couldn’t fix the house and couldn’t afford to fix it. I will tell you, closing was painful and stressful for me (trying to work with her) but a lot of it was “she has a problem, how can I be the one to help solve it?”
So, we buy the house. I was there 5 days a week on top of a W2 job. I was there at 6:00 AM on Saturday and leaving at 11:00 PM.
I talked to the neighbors regularly. They said things like, “You’re here ALL THE TIME.” “Thank you for turning that turd into a gem.”
My business model is to FIGHT against the greedy slumlords. It’s to make sure we’re giving back to the neighborhood. It’s to properly manage my property and ensure that my tenants are not hurting property values from home owners in the neighborhood.
When listed, I had over 150 people contact me to rent it in less than 4 days. That rent money isn’t going to an out of state investor or company that doesn’t care about the community. It’s staying in my home town.
Now, we did this all in cash initially. It’s been less than 6 months since purchase and my wife asked, “how do we do this again?” At this point we have enough equity that we can pull cash out and do it all over. It’s not about the house; it’s about the people.
We can find someone who can’t take care of their place. We can give them a fair price for their problem home before it’s worthless. We can put a ton of work into it and give back to the neighbors by helping their property values. We can provide housing for someone who can’t afford to buy or for whom buying doesn’t make sense. We’re not getting fat by being lazy; we’re doing the work ourselves. We’re appraising a field, buying it, and planting a vineyard that will hopefully provide for our children and grandchildren.
Happy to talk 1 on 1 if you would like. Good luck in your journey!
Great advice @Christopher Abele
I have tried reading sections verbatim from various financial and real estate books. An intellectual argument always fails. I make a lot of money, but I also have a lot of student loan debt. Initially She made me agree that I wouldn’t try to do any real estate investing until my student loan debt was paid off. That likely won’t happen for about 3-4 more years. I just feel bad sitting around and I have serious FOMO.
I was with you until you said you still had considerable loan debt. You don't look like a baby-faced 22-year-old, so I would say that she has a reason to think that your optimism is too high. Either there will be a crash or some massive inflation soon. Either way, there should be good opportunities when things settle out to a new normal.
I was on your side until you said that you had considerable student loan debt. t
@Robert Wright
Your plight was brought to my attention by a fellow investor who knows my story.
My wife and I are Christians and she works at our church. She too believed that debt is bad.
First, the Old Testament does speak to debt, however not on the side of incurring it. It speaks to charging interest to others who are in need. (IE: don’t take advantage of a person who is in need.) NOWHERE in the Bible does it say not to use debt.
It also speaks to the behaviors of a woman of virtue in Proverbs 31. (She appraised a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.) I recommend you tread lightly with this one, though.
Things that might help:
1.) Get your financial house in order first. Work together through this. Monthly, review your savings, income, and where your money went. Treat your house like a business and have a monthly review at minimum.
2.) Define your goals. After you start working through 1 on a regular basis you’ll know what your monthly costs are. Work together to define a safety net. 6 months is a good place.
3.) Pay down existing debt - notably the student loans. Right now you’re paying interest on your money. You will absolutely struggle to get your wife on board because to her it means more debt (bad!!)
4.) Living beneath your means will eventually become habit. You’ll say things like “we can’t afford that.” There will come a tipping point where discipline is needed. Notably, when “we can’t afford it” really means “we can’t afford to stop our trajectory.”
5.) There will come a point when it will feel like savings isn’t growing quickly. At first, saving $100 a week adds up, but you’ll eventually hit a point where that $100 is a really small percent of your “nut.”
6.) If you’ve continued to educate yourself on real estate throughout this whole process and talk about it, you’ll find yourself in a position to say “now what” but you’ll have already answered that.
7.) The first turning point for us was when we went on vacation and drove there. My wife and I traded an hour of listening time. Her music for an hour then my choice for an hour, on the road there and on the road back. (Yup, I got my wife to listen to almost 12 hours of BP podcasts.)
8.) Does your wife believe that landlords are greedy people who get rich off the backs of others? Mine did. Did. Past Tense.
When we bought the house, the woman who lived there had flashlights EVERYWHERE. She couldn’t get up a step to change the lightbulbs. She didn’t have money to fix the roof. The wood siding was starting to rot. She couldn’t fix the house and couldn’t afford to fix it. I will tell you, closing was painful and stressful for me (trying to work with her) but a lot of it was “she has a problem, how can I be the one to help solve it?”
So, we buy the house. I was there 5 days a week on top of a W2 job. I was there at 6:00 AM on Saturday and leaving at 11:00 PM.
I talked to the neighbors regularly. They said things like, “You’re here ALL THE TIME.” “Thank you for turning that turd into a gem.”
My business model is to FIGHT against the greedy slumlords. It’s to make sure we’re giving back to the neighborhood. It’s to properly manage my property and ensure that my tenants are not hurting property values from home owners in the neighborhood.
When listed, I had over 150 people contact me to rent it in less than 4 days. That rent money isn’t going to an out of state investor or company that doesn’t care about the community. It’s staying in my home town.
Now, we did this all in cash initially. It’s been less than 6 months since purchase and my wife asked, “how do we do this again?” At this point we have enough equity that we can pull cash out and do it all over. It’s not about the house; it’s about the people.
We can find someone who can’t take care of their place. We can give them a fair price for their problem home before it’s worthless. We can put a ton of work into it and give back to the neighbors by helping their property values. We can provide housing for someone who can’t afford to buy or for whom buying doesn’t make sense. We’re not getting fat by being lazy; we’re doing the work ourselves. We’re appraising a field, buying it, and planting a vineyard that will hopefully provide for our children and grandchildren.
Happy to talk 1 on 1 if you would like. Good luck in your journey!
Sorry, but this is inaccurate. Bible says a lot of things about debt:
Proverbs 6:1-5: My son, if you have put up security for your neighbor, if you have struck hands in pledge with a stranger, if you have been trapped by the words of your lips, ensnared by the words of your mouth, then do this, my son, to free yourself, for you have fallen into your neighbor’s hands: Go, humble yourself, and press your plea with your neighbor. Allow no sleep to your eyes or slumber to your eyelids. Free yourself, like a gazelle from the hand of the hunter, like a bird from the snare of the fowler.
Proverbs 11:15: Whoever puts up security for a stranger will surely suffer harm, but he who hates striking hands in pledge is secure.
Proverbs 17:18: One who lacks sense gives a pledge and puts up security in the presence of his neighbor.
Proverbs 22:26: Be not one of those who give pledges, who put up security for debts.
These say 1) don't risk too much with loans requiring collateral and 2) don't get a loan with a sketchy dude because you're going to get caught holding the bag.
Romans 13:8, too: Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
This warns against debt that incurs an outstanding obligation. Not so much an obligation that comes and is met regularly.
Finally, Psalm 37:21: The wicked borrow and do not repay, but the righteous are gracious and giving.
Don't be a dirtbag and dump on someone else.
I'm glad you're doing well, though, and I'm glad your relationship is blossoming around this! But READ YOUR BIBLE. You should have already know these!