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Land Flipping Courses
Interested in learning about landflips. Does anyone know of solid courses or information I can use to get started?
#3 All Forums Contributor
- Lender
- Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
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#3 All Forums Contributor
- Lender
- Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @William Ferr:
Quote from @Sara Puls:
Hey, Max. What did you end up doing? I heard about Land Geek on a podcast and I'm watching his free videos on the website and I understand the general process but I'm wondering if you found a course that is helpful and provides some of the details. I'm willing to pay for the information, templates, etc, but agree there's a lot out there and hard to determine the quality of any of them.
So what's the value add aspect, where do you pick up margins? Utilities, site upgrades, engineering?
Alan, I have flipped a few plats.. And there is some good money in it. However at least in our market you have to have POF or Strong letter from your bank to get the seller to allow you to go into contract subject to entitlements.. then you need usually 50 to 100k in EM to tie it up.. then you need another 50 to 100k or more for entitlements.. then you go into contract with one of the national or regional builders and then you pray they will close on time. I did a 100 lot project and we made a little over 10k net per lot but i did buy the land for 200k cash and spent 100k on entitlements it took 24 months.. I tied up a small project 16 lots ( high end lots) that If memory serves we were in contract for 550k spent 60k on entitlements and sold for 1.2 on a double close.
It can be done but it has to be in markets like we have here in Portland that has a SEVERE shortage of buildable lots and highly liquid builders or big companies to sell them to.. And of course there are many markets through out the US that the same metrics apply.. but there are others were flipping plat is not going to work well as the builders will just do their own.
I have also bought and developed lots and sold to builders.. And when i first came to Oregon that is how land got developed prior to about 2000.. Banks were very conservative and nationals had not come in to the market yet.. So you had a lot developer who then had a cadre of builders that would buy and build the homes. the local banks would not go out very far on spec loans in those days maybe 3 or 4 at a time.. So a big builder in those days built 20 a year..
Now of course all the major US nationals are in the market and they are all vertically integrated they will have their pet Land developer who will find and entitle the dirt then flip the plat . but its hard to bust into that situation and as stated you need some pretty serious financial backing.
And some of those guys got hammered in the GFC when the nationals walked form 100 to 300k EM and these guys could not close and lost everything.. I picked up a 14 lot project from a guy who had a contract with Centex ( they defaulted) and looking at my buy HUD this seller had to bring in 600k to sell to me. So on and so forth LOL
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Thanks Jay I've researched over 20 in fills from Sacramento to the Bay Area, that I would build myself with my cash. All are in areas where developers are building homes and retail. The cost of land and buildout exceeds buying existing. Property taxes are the final nail in the coffin. Tough arena for a mom n pop.
YUP if existing exceeds all in build the ONLY buyers are those that want to live in the homes.. this is what happened to us in Charleston SC.. After a run of 30 or so infill new builds the land prices just shot up higher than we can make a margin on as a for profit concern.. or the margin is so small not worth the risk. The other issue we have going on when you compare us trying to build and the big boys, they build cheaper and faster and get better pricing.. the only way my project works is I am doing semi custom working with the buyers at a level the big builders simply wont do its a hybrid and consequently we are getting 50 to 200k more per house sq ft being the same but it cost us more to build and takes us longer.. And these are unique situations.. So we are funding dirt flippers now for montly money and you find a good vertically integrated dirt flipper and I bring them a TON of value I allow them to scale since most are very much capital constrained.. Although humbly speaking we are well suited for this since I grew up in the land business right over there in Clear Lake ( lake county) I also did the last phase of Lake Wildwood and the project just to the East of Beale Air force base on the Hamaton Smartville road.. etc etc.. most lenders simply dont have my back ground so we help the land flipper in due diligence as well as with funding.
Quote from @Jermaine Moore:
Quote from @Daniel Apke:
Hey Max, I'd love to discuss options with you. I came from a traditional real estate background and got involved in land flipping years ago. Like anything, there are pros and cons with land flipping. I highlighted some below to help you make your decision. Overall land flipping has been amazing to me, but it's a lot of work. If you're willing to work, the profit and results are definitely there.
Pros:
- Low upfront cost
- Very high profitability (we average 23k per deal of profit) and the ROI is AMAZING
- Sustainability - so many land owners out there don't want their land
Cons
- Can take 4-6 months or so to see results
- Marketing is expensive, we send mail to acquire properties. Mail is expensive (60 cents per mail).
I created a platform to help others learn from scratch. We have tons of free education for you to learn more about land flipping and land investing. Feel free to reach out, I'd love to help. Best of luck on your journey.
I would be interested in working with you. I've been looking at all of the different programs out there and its challenging just to determine fact fron fiction. I would love to work with someone in the industry that would be willing to provide an educational experience in exchange for sweat equity. I would be willing to joint venture on marketing efforts and everything in between just to work with someone.
Daniel is one of the Apke Brothers I was talking about in my post. I'm one of their students and a member of their Discord group. They, also, have a free Discord group, too. They and the group are legit. Weekly member calls where they analyze our deals are priceless!
Quote from @Jay Johnson:
Quote from @Max Bradshaw:
Interested in learning about landflips. Does anyone know of solid courses or information I can use to get started?
I just did, exactly, what @Edgar U. said to do. He is spot on. I was all in at a little under $14k. It was 3.24 ac. Buy price, included a soil evaluation, drone pics and getting an improvement permit for my end buyer. She wanted one before buying because she is ready to build, so I got the same soil scientist that did my soil evaluation to do that for her within the next week. Sold for $47K. Left closing with a little under $42k. Bought Dec 19 2023. Sold Feb 1 2024. I only sent around 1800 blind offers to get that deal. Some courses say on average, you'll get a deal for every 1800-2300 pieces of mail sent. Doesn't always happen that way, but it did for me. Some people mail 1500-2500 a month. Some do 3000-5000 a month. Some 10,000-20,000 or more a month. If you send only a little mail at a time, it may take a while to get a deal. If that's what you have to do to get started, then do that. You can still get a deal. I just did it that way, but up your mail after that first successful deal and mail consistently every 2 weeks or every month. County selection and pricing is very important. Get, at least, decent with that and you should get some deals. I bought a course, but you can do it without buying one. In case you're wondering, I bought the Apke Brothers course Land Investing Online. I did this all virtually except I went to closing.
I have found that sending blind offers does not work as well as other strategies.
You should check out Jonathon and the land riches blueprint. He explains why he does not use blind offers for everything but also gives cases where he does. I have followed what he taught and have seen improved results.
I do not make anything for the recommendation (no affiliate link to share) but I have numerous courses and his is the most comprehensive.
Quote from @William Ferr:
Quote from @Jay Johnson:
Quote from @Max Bradshaw:
Interested in learning about landflips. Does anyone know of solid courses or information I can use to get started?
I just did, exactly, what @Edgar U. said to do. He is spot on. I was all in at a little under $14k. It was 3.24 ac. Buy price, included a soil evaluation, drone pics and getting an improvement permit for my end buyer. She wanted one before buying because she is ready to build, so I got the same soil scientist that did my soil evaluation to do that for her within the next week. Sold for $47K. Left closing with a little under $42k. Bought Dec 19 2023. Sold Feb 1 2024. I only sent around 1800 blind offers to get that deal. Some courses say on average, you'll get a deal for every 1800-2300 pieces of mail sent. Doesn't always happen that way, but it did for me. Some people mail 1500-2500 a month. Some do 3000-5000 a month. Some 10,000-20,000 or more a month. If you send only a little mail at a time, it may take a while to get a deal. If that's what you have to do to get started, then do that. You can still get a deal. I just did it that way, but up your mail after that first successful deal and mail consistently every 2 weeks or every month. County selection and pricing is very important. Get, at least, decent with that and you should get some deals. I bought a course, but you can do it without buying one. In case you're wondering, I bought the Apke Brothers course Land Investing Online. I did this all virtually except I went to closing.
I have found that sending blind offers does not work as well as other strategies.
You should check out Jonathon and the land riches blueprint. He explains why he does not use blind offers for everything but also gives cases where he does. I have followed what he taught and have seen improved results.
I do not make anything for the recommendation (no affiliate link to share) but I have numerous courses and his is the most comprehensive.
Land flipping is not real estate investing. It's speculating. If you're OK with a gamble for higher % gains, that's what we have done with a big chunk of our cash. I was fearful of long term economy when COVID started (wrong again!) so went short term. It's been fine but there's a lot of work involved. We now have a team of 3 on this full time. 81 properties sold last year at a 40% gross margin. BUT there are a few stinkers to solve. Bad access, won't perc, too much slope, title problem. Still doing it now for 3 years. Started in RE in 1995. Never been a big shot, just average investor spread across different asset classes.
@Steve Hodgdon the idea of land investing has me very curious. I can understand the concept of this being more on the speculative side but from all that I've read it does seem that there is opportunity. If you don't mind me asking, what have you found to be your best resource for locating prospective properties?
Quote from @Josh Tagge:
@Steve Hodgdon the idea of land investing has me very curious. I can understand the concept of this being more on the speculative side but from all that I've read it does seem that there is opportunity. If you don't mind me asking, what have you found to be your best resource for locating prospective properties?
Quote from @Jay Johnson:
Quote from @Max Bradshaw:
Interested in learning about landflips. Does anyone know of solid courses or information I can use to get started?
I just did, exactly, what @Edgar U. said to do. He is spot on. I was all in at a little under $14k. It was 3.24 ac. Buy price, included a soil evaluation, drone pics and getting an improvement permit for my end buyer. She wanted one before buying because she is ready to build, so I got the same soil scientist that did my soil evaluation to do that for her within the next week. Sold for $47K. Left closing with a little under $42k. Bought Dec 19 2023. Sold Feb 1 2024. I only sent around 1800 blind offers to get that deal. Some courses say on average, you'll get a deal for every 1800-2300 pieces of mail sent. Doesn't always happen that way, but it did for me. Some people mail 1500-2500 a month. Some do 3000-5000 a month. Some 10,000-20,000 or more a month. If you send only a little mail at a time, it may take a while to get a deal. If that's what you have to do to get started, then do that. You can still get a deal. I just did it that way, but up your mail after that first successful deal and mail consistently every 2 weeks or every month. County selection and pricing is very important. Get, at least, decent with that and you should get some deals. I bought a course, but you can do it without buying one. In case you're wondering, I bought the Apke Brothers course Land Investing Online. I did this all virtually except I went to closing.
Jay, man that is a great deal. Good work! Just curious how you send out your offer? Is it a contract with a number on there? Or did you have a call back number? I'll shoot you a message.
