What would you tell your lawyer?

Question

I asked my lawyer's paralegal if she could have my lawyer look at the Independent Contractor Agreement J Scott  posted.  I also asked if he had one he recommended for the state of Pennsylvania.

Here is what I got back... "He asked that I schedule you for a telephone call so he may discuss with you the aspects of these types of contracts, what should be considered when entering into the contracts and what is needed for certain situations."

My goal is to get a PA approved ICA.  I don't mind spending $ to discuss how to implement a document and identify things that do need changed, but I don't want to have a $250 discussion and hang up thinking...I still don't have a gosh darn agreement!

Advice?

Jerry Kisasonak · Answer

Dan Costantino  Steve mentioned Brad Dorish. If you don't already attend, you should consider going to the Acre meetings in Pittsburgh. Brad is usually at the meetings and you can talk with him there without charge. Earlier this week I attended the meeting and talked with him for about 20 minutes or so and had a great conversation. He is a very sharp real estate attorney. Definately knows his stuff. And besides having access to Brad, there are MANY other benefits to attending the monthly meetings.

Joe Bertolino · Answer

Ask him to review and redline/recommend adjustments to the contract before the call.  That should speed up the process and keep costs down.

Ned Carey · Answer

As I see it the issue isn't whether to have an attorney review but which attorney to use.

Some attorneys just want to "run up the tab" as J  Scott said.  The attorneys I works with will take 20 minutes on the phone with me without charging anything. I have had attorneys do that that I never even dealt with.

On the other hand I have had an attorney talk in circles for an hour and a half and charge me $800.

I wish I had tips on how to find the first type attorney. You  have gotten some very good advice above.

The fact that the answer you got was "He asked that I schedule you" from his paralegal make me suspect he is the later type.

Good luck - Ned

J Scott · Answer

I like Bill's suggestion.  Ask him to spend 5-10 minutes outlining what he would change, and then have him get to work.  You should know pretty quickly if he has any major issues with it or if he's just looking to run up his tab.

Btw, if he has anything important to say, let us know...I'm pretty confident in my attorney and what he provided, but nobody's perfect and I'm always looking to improve my ICA...

Ian M. · Answer

Dan Costantino I third Brad Dornish.  He set up my entities and makes himself available at the ACRE meetings that Jerry Kisasonak mentions, yes for free.  He's very busy outside of those meetings though so take advantage of it there!  I dont know about an ICA contract, but as Steve Babiak mentions he does have an inventory and has an online store at dornish.net.  I just recently bought his course on seller financing solely for the contract in there - $99.  Again, no affiliation other than using him for my stuff, i get no cut from him....unfortunately!   Good luck.

Dan Costantino · Answer

Thanks all.  I appreciate the advice!

Steve Babiak · Answer

You are in the Pittsburgh area; there is an attorney based out of Pittsburgh named Brad Dornish.  He has some home study materials on his website priced very reasonably, and among those materials is a "dealing with contractors" course.  (I have no affiliations with Brad other than having a few of his materials myself.)

Try giving him a call to see what you can pick from his brain gratis, and you might consider buying some of those training materials.

Bill Gulley · Answer

If you have a relationship with this attorney, he may have some questions and suggestions to cover before drafting a contract, you should be able to get 5 minutes worth, maybe more, without him tagging you as he will be doing more work

If this is a new attorney, then interview them as to doing the work for you, they should tell you what they will do and do so for nothing as you are making an inquiry about retaining them.

I'd tell them everything in a concise manner, you might jot down your thoughts to stay on track with the subject. Some are rather artful about talking about themselves in thier abilities to do work while you are on the clock, time is what attorneys sell, so keep them on track, tactfully.

When you call, first things should be, I need a contract by such and such date. Do you have one or can you review the one I sent as to form and function of the content. Form, means is it in proper form, the basic elements to a contract. Function and content is asking for recitals and agreements to be incoroprated into a contract and that's where his time should be concentrated. Cut it short as there should be basic matters to be covered by local custom and what is usual, he doesn't need to explain much until you get it and have questions, another billable time.

Just be brief but complete, polite but direct and to the point. :)

Dan Costantino · Answer

This ICA is for a contractor to rehab my first property.  I will spend the money.  I just want to come away with a contract....not an expensive legal conversation.
I am just going to tell them I want the agreement I have reviewed.  
The one I downloaded can be found here...  http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2010/02/17/whats-in-a-contract-contractors-rehabbing-real-estate/

Simon Campbell · Answer

I absolutely see your point. That sounds like a $250 contract to me. How about this? I did a quick search online and found a Broker/Salesperson Independent Contractor Agreement that has been approved by the Pennsylvania Association of Realtors. That should give you the protection that you need.

Here is the link: http://www.parealtor.org/clientuploads/StandardForms/Sample_Forms/ICA.pdf

What would you tell your lawyer?

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