Why is it so hard to find a good contractor??
Rental Property Investor · Napa, CA · Member since 2016 · 68 posts · 57 votes
Why is it so hard to find a good contractor??
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Rental Property Investor · Schenectady, NY · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 19 votes
9yHey Tim, I rely heavily on the advice of my father who's been a contractor, business owner and general contractor for over 35 years when it comes to my own investing. What I see most having an inside view both in the business and within the bigger pockets community my opinion is that the biggest problem with finding a good contractor is both cost and time. The good guys who are honest, easy to work with and know their stuff are going to be more expensive because they can be, like any profession. Those guys are in high demand and have enough work lined up that they can charge more. Secondly, people trust them and refer them consistently, so they have work lined up for a couple months. People wait for them because they're good. Good contractor don't like to cut corners to save a dollar as some flippers prefer because their name and livelihood are on the line. As an example, I'm not taking about using a low-cost vanity. I'm talking about using two coats of tape instead of 3 or skipping on a primer coat when they think it's needed.
If you want a good contractor don't wait at a big box store, you're just hoping to get lucky. Go to a small lumber yard good contractors use more consistently and ask for referrals. Ask for referrals from specialty stores like cabinet vendors and privately owned plumbing stores. Those guys will have connections to people who have been in business for years and they've worked with for a long time. Don't trust anyone who gives you a firm estimate on a first visit. One can estimate a new hot water tank install will cost say $50 for material and install, but if they estimate the whole project in person without crunching numbers at home or at the office, they're not a good contractor and you can expect your project expenses to go up once you begin working with them. My recommendation once you get some referrals is to see the quality of their work and try and reserve someone once you sign a contract. That way if you have to wait say a month for them to finish their current project there's some wiggle room. If they come out to look at your project, don't expect them to give up their time for free. At least offer to buy them lunch and you can pick their brain more while you're there. That act of kindness will go a long way with them and their subs. Good luck in the search!!
14 Replies
- 9yDaniel HymanBusiness MemberCPA · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votesTim McGarvey I heard on one of the podcasts (I think it was J. Scott) that one way of finding a good contractor is to hit up Home Depot early in the morning and you'll find some there.
My Online Accountant572 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Schenectady, NY · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 19 votes9yHey Tim, I rely heavily on the advice of my father who's been a contractor, business owner and general contractor for over 35 years when it comes to my own investing. What I see most having an inside view both in the business and within the bigger pockets community my opinion is that the biggest problem with finding a good contractor is both cost and time. The good guys who are honest, easy to work with and know their stuff are going to be more expensive because they can be, like any profession. Those guys are in high demand and have enough work lined up that they can charge more. Secondly, people trust them and refer them consistently, so they have work lined up for a couple months. People wait for them because they're good. Good contractor don't like to cut corners to save a dollar as some flippers prefer because their name and livelihood are on the line. As an example, I'm not taking about using a low-cost vanity. I'm talking about using two coats of tape instead of 3 or skipping on a primer coat when they think it's needed. If you want a good contractor don't wait at a big box store, you're just hoping to get lucky. Go to a small lumber yard good contractors use more consistently and ask for referrals. Ask for referrals from specialty stores like cabinet vendors and privately owned plumbing stores. Those guys will have connections to people who have been in business for years and they've worked with for a long time. Don't trust anyone who gives you a firm estimate on a first visit. One can estimate a new hot water tank install will cost say $50 for material and install, but if they estimate the whole project in person without crunching numbers at home or at the office, they're not a good contractor and you can expect your project expenses to go up once you begin working with them. My recommendation once you get some referrals is to see the quality of their work and try and reserve someone once you sign a contract. That way if you have to wait say a month for them to finish their current project there's some wiggle room. If they come out to look at your project, don't expect them to give up their time for free. At least offer to buy them lunch and you can pick their brain more while you're there. That act of kindness will go a long way with them and their subs. Good luck in the search!!
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes9y
The main reason is MONEY . Good contractors are professionals , and charge accordingly . New to the business flippers , all they see is $$$$ signs and want a job done good , fast and cheap . It never works .
The sweetness of low price is soon forgotten , but the bitterness of poor quality last a long time
- Moseley, VA · Member since 2016 · 115 posts · 60 votes9yJustin explained it the best. You might of had a great contractor quote one of your projects but they had too high of a number. I think some flipping contractors are comprised of good contractors trying to get to higher end projects because those are the jobs where they make the most profit and get quality referrals for the next job. I have worked for people as a contractor where they want a deal or talk you down on your number. The best jobs that contractors get are from referrals because the new client knows your reputation and why you charge the way you do. Now think if you go from this job to quote a flipper who wants a bargain and maybe talks you down on your price. After awhile the contractor will have enough referrals to get a backlog of projects and will not have time to quote other projects.
- Investor · Los Altos, CA · Member since 2014 · 942 posts · 1k+ votes9y
@Tim McGarvey its not hard finding good contractors. It is the criteria we use to define "good contractors" that is what creates the perception that it is hard to find them... There is nothing different to contractors than any other business model:
"good, reliable and cost effective" = quality, time, price.
As the saying goes, "you can pick 2, but you will never get all 3".
- There are great contractor who put out a quality product and are on time, but you will pay for it.
- If you pay bottom dollar pricing, you MIGHT get a good product, but the contractor will use you as "fill work".
- The worst case scenario is if you find a guy who is always on time, charges you a ton but makes a poor product.
Time is specific, but of course quality and good price is subjective. So the above rule really needs to be applied to each persons own standards. As an example a quality cabinet install as well as reasonable cost to me might be very different to somebody else. Just my 2 cents on the topic, I hope it helps.
Take it easy,
Arlen
- Developer · Grand Haven, MI · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 6 votes9y
I work commercial contracting and see it everyday.
The low initial offer almost always costs more in the long run.
And at the end of the day the owner has paid more than agreed just to have a job fail inspection, and then has to pay again to have a good contractor come back and clean up the mess.
But that low bid upfront is just too tempting sometimes.
- Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes9y
I give a price for the job.
I will not break it down into labor and materials.
I will not come and install your materials.
When you sign the contract. You get put on the schedule. If you are a past customer and it is an emergency we will squeeze you in.
I will tell customers "you have to wonder why then can start right away". If they are a good contractor they should be booked up.
- 9yMike ReynoldsPro Memberconstruction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I agree with all that's been said. It's like this. Twenty five years ago a built several duplexes for a client. The code for a fire wall was changing the next year. I built it to the be code. It cost maybe fifty dollars extra. I threw in the labor as it was my choice to do it.
The other griped at me for a week over that fifty. He wouldn't let build anything else for him. Said I was a loose cannon. Didn't follow directions. Fast forward two years later and he came by my house and asked me to get in his truck. He took me by the duplex and showed me that one had burnt. Complete gut job. The other side was intact. Just redo for smoke and smell. He apologized and asked me to do the gut job.
Good contractor doesn't cost. It pays. Even on a flip. If you sell a bad product (even if you are unaware of it) to someone you could still be liable down the road.
Best bet to find one I heard here was the local lumber yard. See if they have a contractor sales desk. Those are the ones in the know. Of they have a contractor that constantly orders too little out too much they won't recommend them. Clients come in all the time telling them who messed up thier house.
At home depot you are lucky if they know where to find the 2x4's. Just my nickel.
- 9yMike ReynoldsPro Memberconstruction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mark Holencik:
I give a price for the job.
I will not break it down into labor and materials.
I will not come and install your materials.
When you sign the contract. You get put on the schedule. If you are a past customer and it is an emergency we will squeeze you in.
I will tell customers "you have to wonder why then can start right away". If they are a good contractor they should be booked up.
I am the same way. When I get asked to "give a ballpark" figure I ask them where do they want the dugout.
- Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes9y
Originally posted by @Mike Reynolds:
Originally posted by @Mark Holencik:
I give a price for the job.
I will not break it down into labor and materials.
I will not come and install your materials.
When you sign the contract. You get put on the schedule. If you are a past customer and it is an emergency we will squeeze you in.
I will tell customers "you have to wonder why then can start right away". If they are a good contractor they should be booked up.
I am the same way. When I get asked to "give a ballpark" figure I ask them where do they want the dugout.
Once you give them a ballpark figure you can not go over it. They will say, "but you said it would cost this much".
If they do ask, I ask what their other prices are.
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes9y
An easy way to tell you are getting a good contractor , look at the contract . For a total rehab when you get a 1 or 2 page contract with a great price , but very few specifics , and then you get a 40 page contract that is 50% more but it is so detailed it has every contingency covered . Which do you think will be the better contractor ?
As a contractor , when there is a question or problem , I tell the customer to refer back to the contract . It explains just about everything .
- Rental Property Investor · Napa, CA · Member since 2016 · 68 posts · 57 votes9y
Agreed @Daniel Dexter. I work for a large general contractor and cannot recall a time where we/the owner have accepted a low bid and not paid the price for it. If it seems too good to be true, it usually is. What you don't pay for upfront, you pay on the back-end via change orders, rework, schedule slippage, etc. Just went through a nightmare project with a low cost electrician and it bit everyone involved in the butt. Word to the wise: if you're going to cheap out, do it on the trade that goes in last, not first!
- Developer · Hobart, IN · Member since 2014 · 773 posts · 225 votes9y
@Tim McGarvey I agree that finding a good contractor is very difficult and I have made my fair share of bad decisions on them. However I do think that as investors we have extremely tight numbers to make work and super tight budgets. So to me it's all relative right? There are very good contractors out there most of the time we as investors just can't afford to use them on our rehabs. So this leaves us with having to get good at managing sub par, unorganized, lower quality contractors and try to help them get to the next level.
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