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All Forum Posts by: Mark S.

Mark S. has started 157 posts and replied 1276 times.

Post: Shady Syndicator Stuff or Smooth Sailing?

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528

@Lane Kawaoka, we can talk about scarcity vs abundant mindset all day long - I'm sure that helps with whatever coaching you're selling.  That's not the point of the post.  No one is asking for a 99/1 split with no fees.  The point of the post was regarding a couple of items that simply seemed a bit "off" and cause for concern.  It's one thing to be upfront with investors about deal structure and fees and another to simply hide it inside a PPM or OA hoping investors are too lazy to notice.  I have reason to believe that in one of the two cases above that's what's going on.  

If your "professional" barber that you've received several haircuts from all of a sudden put their hand in your pocket for some extra tip money all the while you've already paid them fairly out of the other pocket and claims that they've decided to change things up and them reaching into your other pocket is disclosed on the backside of their haircut price menu in size 2 font at the bottom right-hand corner, you'd probably find a new barber - whether they're "professional" or not.

Post: Shady Syndicator Stuff or Smooth Sailing?

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528
Originally posted by @Chris Levarek:

I've seen the first, not the second. I am not defending either but I do know, the market changes constantly. Syndication groups come and go. The ones that last, adapt and pivot to the market and the demand. As mentioned, if it makes sense to you then it's worthwhile, if not pass. Covid changed quite a bit, even some no longer offering preferred returns at all and some who haven't paid out distributions since Covid started. 

I only mention because there is far more involved then simply returns. Risk tolerance, distribution schedule, asset management track record, past performance, trust and more are all worth varying degrees of returns, tax benefits, and the like to an investor. But as always it depends on the investor.

 Thanks, Chris.  Makes sense. 

Post: Shady Syndicator Stuff or Smooth Sailing?

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Mark S.:

Been evaluating several syndication opportunities lately and I've noticed a few things I've not seen before in this space (and even with the same operators).  I'm not going to call anyone out, but here are two main things I've run into which seem like total BS to me.  Let's see if you agree:

1.) Syndicator "Admin" Fee Changed from Flat % to Waterfall-type Split:  One group I have been dealing with historically did not charge an admin fee at all. Then they started charging a 0.50% annual admin fee. NOW, they have changed it so that after an investor receives a targeted IRR, that the investor's split changes and they take a % of the split. This is IN ADDITION TO an Asset Management Fee (and acquisition fee, etc.). I personally think this is complete BS and they're getting greedy to put it mildly.

EXAMPLE: 10% preferred return, then 50/50 split between investor/syndicator. Syndicator is essentially raising money for operating sponsor, so a middleman so-to-speak. After investor gets 10% IRR, there's an 80/20 split between investor and syndicator. So, basically, after an investor gets a 10% IRR, the split goes from 50/50 to effectively 40/10/50 (where the 10% - which is 20% of the investor's 50% - goes to syndicator raising money).

2.) Not Knowing Final % Split Until Deal Fully Funded: Another group I've been in talks with essentially cannot tell you upfront what the split will be between investors / sponsor.  There is typically a range, depending on how much money is raised.  They'll issue a certain number of A units, B units, etc.  They have a targeted amount of $ to raise.  They have a stated minimum and maximum (which can change the split).  In a recent offering, I think it ranged somewhere from 31% to 49% to investors, depending on how much $ was raised and how many Class A units were purchased by investors.  This seems backwards to me as previous deals I've invested in always state a definitive percentage upfront (70/30, 80/20, etc.).   The only thing this particular group declares upfront is a preferred return, if any.  Other than that, split is TBD.  I want to know what my split is going to be going into the deal and I also want it to be way higher than 50% in most cases.  It seems like this particular group's best case split scenario is 50% to investors (on top of a preferred return).

Is anyone else seeing these shenanigans with all the cheap money looking for a home out there or are my expectations just way out of line right now?  Really interested to hear people's thoughts.  I think the above two examples are very unfair to limited partner investors and I am shocked that these syndicators seem to have a relatively easy time raising money from likely unknowing "investors."

 Okay, you've conveonced me, so start your own Syndication and let me know when it's available.

 Looking for helpful comments, not sarcasm.  Thanks for playing.

Post: Shady Syndicator Stuff or Smooth Sailing?

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528

Been evaluating several syndication opportunities lately and I've noticed a few things I've not seen before in this space (and even with the same operators).  I'm not going to call anyone out, but here are two main things I've run into which seem like total BS to me.  Let's see if you agree:

1.) Syndicator "Admin" Fee Changed from Flat % to Waterfall-type Split:  One group I have been dealing with historically did not charge an admin fee at all. Then they started charging a 0.50% annual admin fee. NOW, they have changed it so that after an investor receives a targeted IRR, that the investor's split changes and they take a % of the split. This is IN ADDITION TO an Asset Management Fee (and acquisition fee, etc.). I personally think this is complete BS and they're getting greedy to put it mildly.

EXAMPLE: 10% preferred return, then 50/50 split between investor/syndicator. Syndicator is essentially raising money for operating sponsor, so a middleman so-to-speak. After investor gets 10% IRR, there's an 80/20 split between investor and syndicator. So, basically, after an investor gets a 10% IRR, the split goes from 50/50 to effectively 40/10/50 (where the 10% - which is 20% of the investor's 50% - goes to syndicator raising money).

2.) Not Knowing Final % Split Until Deal Fully Funded: Another group I've been in talks with essentially cannot tell you upfront what the split will be between investors / sponsor.  There is typically a range, depending on how much money is raised.  They'll issue a certain number of A units, B units, etc.  They have a targeted amount of $ to raise.  They have a stated minimum and maximum (which can change the split).  In a recent offering, I think it ranged somewhere from 31% to 49% to investors, depending on how much $ was raised and how many Class A units were purchased by investors.  This seems backwards to me as previous deals I've invested in always state a definitive percentage upfront (70/30, 80/20, etc.).   The only thing this particular group declares upfront is a preferred return, if any.  Other than that, split is TBD.  I want to know what my split is going to be going into the deal and I also want it to be way higher than 50% in most cases.  It seems like this particular group's best case split scenario is 50% to investors (on top of a preferred return).

Is anyone else seeing these shenanigans with all the cheap money looking for a home out there or are my expectations just way out of line right now?  Really interested to hear people's thoughts.  I think the above two examples are very unfair to limited partner investors and I am shocked that these syndicators seem to have a relatively easy time raising money from likely unknowing "investors."

Post: Kingdom Storage Partners: Anyone Invest in Syndication w Them?

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528

Anyone ever invest with Kingdom Storage Partners (Scott Meyers)?  Interested in learning about others' experiences as I consider them. I searched BP and didn't fund much. Thanks in advance.

Post: 90$ a month to high for a bookeeper,accountant, business advice ?

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528

@Montez B., most wouldn’t get out of bed for $90/month.  That’s less than a nice dinner.  Give it a try and if you don’t think it’s worth it, at least it was $90 and not $900.  

Post: Loan Slots Towards 10 Fannie/Freddie Backed Loans

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528

@Timothy Hero, @Stephanie P.'s comments above seem to differ from yours. While the loans may not technically show on personal credit anymore, if in the process of going through underwriting for a new conventional loan in the future for a new purchase the properties are found on tax returns, then the DSCR loan effectively really didn't improve the remaining loan slot situation.

Post: Loan Slots Towards 10 Fannie/Freddie Backed Loans

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528

@Timothy Hero, you're not reading the question. The question isn't about DSCR lenders doing loans. The question is whether or not a DSCR loan helps with new purchases of new properties on conventional loans. Per the above, it sounds like it does not.

Post: Loan Slots Towards 10 Fannie/Freddie Backed Loans

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528

@Stephanie P., so essentially if I have 4 loan slots open now, after a new DSCR loan, I still only have 4 slots. And now that they're all (the rentals) under the DSCR loan, it's even more difficult to implement the strategy you're describing with equity repositioning to pay off higher equity/lower LTV properties. I should expect that the 5 rentals covered by the new DSCR loan are now even more "permanent" in terms of not refinancing again later/ever.

So what it seems to come down to is whether or not to do the DSCR loan for other reasons (pull equity out for reinvestment, lower interest rate, etc.), but that re-opening loan slots isn't one of them (even when certain DSCR lenders are quick to tell me that my existing conventional Fannie/Freddie loans will no longer show on my credit report). It sounds like while technically it's true that they may not show on my credit report, that when underwriting for the next new purchase using a conventional Fannie/Freddie backed loan digs deeper, they will still count these 5 properties as financed and the new DSCR loan really didn't help me in that regard.

Am I following what you’re saying?

Post: Loan Slots Towards 10 Fannie/Freddie Backed Loans

Mark S.
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,309
  • Votes 528

@Nick Belsky, thanks for the quick response. I get that DSCR loan doesn't count towards Fannie/Freddie. My question is when that DSCR loan pays off 5 Fannie/Freddie backed loans (so homes aren't free and clear, they just no longer have Fannie/Freddie backed loans on them), does this DSCR loan OPEN BACK UP 5 of my Fannie/Freddie loan slots?