Originally posted by Scott Hubbard:
Originally posted by Clifton Jones:
We have a property that has both a 1st and 2nd mortgage on it. We have offered $32,025 on the property, with the 1st receiving $29,275 and the 2nd getting $2,750.
The 1st mortgage is with American General Finance and we have received an Acceptance Letter. The amount due to American General was $120,000, but they accepted our offer to settle in full.
The 2nd mortgage is with CitiFinancial and the their loan was for $11,198. This loan is now in their Recovery Dept and they are demanding $4,000 at close before they will release the lien. The negotiators' manager will not call us or talk to us on the reasons behind this number. CitiFinancial did have a BPO done on the property, but the ARV is only $55,000.
We are unwilling to offer them another $1,250 and American General is not willing to take a bigger loss, so is there anybody out there that can provide some guidance on how to get them off the fence and settle?
The negotiator with CitiFinancial has been extremely rude and confrontational, which does not go well when dealing with my Type A personality, so dealing with the negotiator is now pretty much out of the equation. I have attempted to speak with her boss, but he refuses to answer his phone or call me back.
I have gotten to the point where I told them I was going to the media and my Congressman and Senator (because the govt owns approx 35% of CitiGroup, based on bailing their *** out.) I am trying to get a number to the CitiFinancial Public Relations/Media Relations dept to get help there.
If anybody can recommend any other way to get them to accept the short sale, it would be greatly appreciated.
1. You cannot EVER lose your cool. These people take notes and record them into the borrower's account. I understand your frustration, but you likely ruined any chance of improving your position.
2. Client relations departments have zero impact on the getting a number changed. They do, however, help you find another negotiator in some instances.
3. The difference is $1250.00? If this is a sticking point, then you probably missed your number on the offer for the 1st. Hard to believe this is your breaking point.
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In the future, when negotiating in Florida, or in states where their is a deficiency judgment allowed, the bad debt market will net lenders more due to the judgment. You need to allow a higher payoff allowance.
When negotiating you need to improve upon your initial offer. So, in your case, your initial offer should have been $1K. Then, they would come back at $4K and you counter at $2K and so on. The negotiator needs to be able to show his/her supervisor that they are creating value. And you need to make them look good.
Coming at them at $2750 and not budging is going to get you nowhere every time. Remember, they are negotiators so let them, but let them do it within the context of your budget.
I never truly lost my cool with the negotiator, but I did point out that since they had already written the loan off, everything they were set to make was complete profit. I also did argue with them, but kept my cool during that time. The negotiator, Shannon, was the one who kept losing her cool. The reason I stated that dealing with the negotiator was now out of the question was based on her personality, and the fact that I did not think I could continue to keep my cool, if I had to talk to her any more.
To recap this short sale, we originally offered the 2nd $1,000 and the 1st $24,000. The first refused, which we expected, but I was able to request that they receive a BPO or appraisal. They ended up sending out the manager from the local branch office to perform the BPO. When they got it back in the Loss Mitigation dept, they countered with $32,000. I got them down to $29,275.
CitiFinancial also had a BPO done, and after my initial offer, they re-assigned the account to a different negotiator (the first negotiator had a death in the family and was taking some time off). It was this 2nd negotiator that was rude and a pain in the a** right from the start.
I eventually went to the corporate headquarters, since her boss would never get on the line or call me back. Heasdquarters put me in touch with the Director in my area, who was then able to get the Recovery Dept manager to help. After explaining everything, and pulling EVERY comp within 0.8 miles for the last 8 months, the negotiator sent me an email stating that they would settle for $3,500. I called the manager back and stated that the buyer would go to $3,000 and that was it. He accepted and they sent an Acceptance Letter.
Now, before I can close on this property, there is one last issue I have to clear up. The original 1st mortgage was from World Savings Bank for $124,000. This was recorded in the Official Records for this county. The American General mortgage was recorded 2 weeks later, but World Savings Bank never recorded a Satisfaction. Also, World Savings has since been bought out by Wachovia who was bought out by Wells neither of which have any record of this loan. I have been trying to resolve this, since it definitely looks like the World Saving mortgage was paid off by the American General mortgage. The price for the American General mortgage was $128,067.xx, which just happens to coincide with the $124,000 plus points. I do have a title company helping to resolve this issue, but any suggestions are appreciated. I have sent in the mortgage to Wachovia and Wells, who both stated that they would look into it and get the info back to me.
