All Forum Posts by: Tom Plyler

@Brandon G.

I agree that eventually there will be someone out there more interested in helping than arguing for the sake of satisfying their own superiority complex.  I agree these two know their stuff but there's no mistake they waste too much of it by manipulation.

I've also read many other threads where these same people hijacked a thread that started with relatively straight forward questions and turned them into a pointless, irrelevant (to the original intent of the thread) debate.  That's actually why I included this in my original post before they (or anyone) responded:

"BP seems great for discussions about techniques used to structure win-win deals but too often leave out the details necessary to be able to put them in place.

I also know many of you have a tendency to get off track trying to prove who is more right, moral, legal etc. But for the sake of this thread we can hopefully stay on topic."

If I hear of anything that could be of help I'll link you to it.  Sorry you (or I) couldn't actually benefit from much in this thread.

@Wayne Brooks

I credit each of them for all of the knowledge they have. My criticism falls with the lack of an alternative solution.  I'm not looking for someone to agree with me on anything.  Quite the opposite.  As my thread started and continues to the point where I feel like I'm beating the dead horse, I'm looking for solutions! 

No solutions by those who have more knowledge than any 20 others equals meaningless knowledge.

No POA...OK, then what?

One of these guys (Bill) openly approves of sub2 deals with disclosure but not using a POA and the other, Dion openly disapproves of either of them. Both perspectives are great...providing they offer more than what they reject. It's too easy to say "the problem with doink it that way is..."

@Brandon G.

Is it just me or do these guys have the tendency to point out ever thing that can go wrong without ever offering any direct answers or alternative solutions whatsoever? 

Emphasis on NO SOLUTIONS!!

Their assumptions that almost nothing has ever been disclosed or agreed by contract with the original borrower points out only the worst case scenario and suggests that everyone here but themselves are slimy, lowlife bloodsuckers.  Can we say narcissistic? 

I still can't seem to get the most simple form of an answer to a basic question. They seem to suck the oxygen from the room & address issues not directly relevant.

From everything we read here on BP, there are definitely issues that need to be addressed after the sale & they don't necessarily involve fraud by the investor.  Like you, I want to know more about what issues to prepare for and how to address them before they happen. 

Maybe if you post a similar thread you might get more help? If so, please let me know.

@Dion DePaoli

Cooler heads prevail : )

I do try very hard to keep an open mind in order to try to understand another point of view or a different concept. I think the problem Bill and I were having was that we were discussing two different topics simultaneously.  Each of us were making the assumption that the other one understood where & why the other person was coming from, but I don't think that actually was the case.

All I was trying to find out from Bill, in the Rocky example was why he seemed to agree with the use of POA in order to cash the check. Nothing more, nothing less. I whole heartedly get it that he doesn't recommend the use of POA's in a sub2 deal. I even understand the agency issues created by the use of a POA. If I inadvertently took that conversation out of context, I didn't hear anything from Bill that put it into perspective. Wouldn't it have been much better to simply say how he would have handled cashing the check as described by Rocky? Or if that is one of the only exceptions to the rule, say so. Either way, In their thread it sounds like Rocky used a POA to be able to receive escrow overages. It also seemed as though Bill agreed in that situation. I was only asking him how that specific example differed from his overall recommendation against using a POA. I still don't understand how this scenario should be addressed differently, if at all. If he addressed that in any of his examples that I perceived to be irrelevant to how the Rocky's of the world should or shouldn't be cashinges the check, I'll be the first to admit it.

The paragraph that began with "The cronversation with Rocky is being taken out of context and context matters." comes closer, in my opinion,  to address the question than anything Bill said throughout all of his posts.  

So, after all that's been said, do you, Bill or anyone else have an opinion as to whether the use of a POA in that scenario is an acceptable way to go? If so, what would be an example of appropriate language to be used in the POA? If not, what would be a better alternative?

I'mean back where I started.  Not looking for any conflicts, just looking for answers.

Any input?

 Bill, I am ashamed for you, for you seem to have none for yourself.  I'll offer you an accurate recap to take away all of your excuses and expose your misplaced accusations.

I started this thread to simply ask for advice after reading many threads offering similar advice to use a POA with sub2 transactions. This thread didn't reference any particular post or person (impossible to claim that I'm "sharpshooting").

You voluntarily chose to respond and gave a contradictory opinion to one you publicly offered in a previous post here on BP.

I very politely responded and provided a copy of the previous post to offer clarification that in that specific post, you condoned the use of a POA and advised the specific type of POA to use. I then asked about your opinion related to only that post in which you advised the use of a POA. I mentioned your comments will be considered as "a friend helping a friend" as a genuine gesture to promote a fruitful mutually beneficial exchange between like minded people.

My next post was to apologize for accidentally inputting duplicate posts. 

You responded like a spoiled teenager as though someone failed to kiss the ground you walked upon. 

I clarified that I wasn't refusing to take your advice, but wanted to know why you gave different advice to a very similar situation by another person posting about a similar situation. 

Your response was a petty attempt to distract, deceive and distort the topic of the thread by citing inaccurate references you suggested you previously offered and gave irrelevant examples that had nothing to do with the topic of the thread or the post in which you were quoted.

I responded by confirming my acknowledgement of your general position of NOT using a POA, but (again) asked what made you advise the other BP friend to use one. I virtually pleaded with you to give me your insight!

You pitifully tried to shift, duck & dodge the hard cold fact that you ever commented in favor of the use of a POA in a sub2. You even said I must be "mistaken" and asked me to post your comments to prove myself (even though, at this point we both know the post with your comments in question has already been put into this thread). Then you tried to interject yet ANOTHER irrelevant example, completely unrelated to any previous comments in posts from either of us.

My next post only contained the copy of the conversation between you and the other investor that clearly displayed you agreeing to and advising the use of a POA in a sub2. No more, no less.

I even followed up with another post trying to give you a graceful explanation for your misguided statements,  citing your many contributions to threads here in BP.  I asked the one and only question that I've been asking  (and you've been avoiding).

I added another post asking you what language you use when disclosing the sub2 transaction to the lender.

Your final response started with vulgarity unprovoked by anything in this post and proceeded with a rant befitting a toddler that had his favorite candy taken away.

My advice to you is to restrict your activities to reading the posts and avoid commenting on them unless you are willing to conduct an honest dialogue in a meaningful way.  Unfortunately in this case you proved incapable of doing so.

@Bill G.

Can you provide any constructive input to another one of the questions in my original post:

And finally, for those of you who do disclose to the lender (you know who you are) I would  like an actual copy of the language used in your communication. 

@Bill G.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you must have been thinking of some other post you've been a part of.  Prior to your most recent post in this thread, you never mentioned a mortgage company, collections, deposits on contracts,  or servicing on behalf of the Seller in any comments in this thread or the thread in question with Rocky V.  If you think there was, please post it ; )

The confusion is clearly on your side.  (Feel free to re-read the previous posts to confirm)

As you can see in your response to Rocky V.'s mention of his use of a POA, you specifically approved of his use of a POA "SPECIFIC USE IS FINE" and the proceeded to advise him further on using a POA "I'd suggest a specific POA to the deal, not a general matter but whatever they accept. :)"

So, back to the big question...why did you advise @rocky v. to use a POA in the sub2 example I provided. In that situation, what language would you recommend in the POA? (since you did advise him to use it, after all)

 Bill, I posted it and you've replied to it when I posted it before,  but here it is again:

Specific use is fine. I'd suggest a specific POA to the deal, not a general matter but whatever they accept. :)

Rocky, I started a thread recently asking what language others here on BP use in their POA in a sub2 transaction because I'm working on a sub2 deal now. There's equity and the owner is in foreclosure. My plan is to fix & flip.

So far the only response has been from Bill Gulley. I noticed he confirmed you should be using (and even advised you to use) a POA. In my thread he seems to have a completely different opinion and says to never use one! I've tried several times asking him why he advised to use a POA in your example, but his responses all seem to address lots of things other than the simple question.

Please help by telling me what your average sub2 POA says. In your opinion, when would you use a POA in a sub2 deal? When wouldn't you?

Thanks in advance.

 Bill Gulley

No, Bill there was never a mention of implied agency or implied authority in your advice to Rocky V. or in your responses to me.

I get it that your underlying general advise is to not use a POA, but you still haven't begun to explain why you DID advise Rocky V. to use a POA in the example he described.

 I'm not sure why the question at hand is being treated as if it weren't being asked. Honestly,  I wouldn't be going through this much trouble to get the answer if I really didn't want to know, but...I do!  I assume with the experience you have there has to be at least a few good reasons to advise him to do the opposite of what you would ordinarily advise against.  Come on Bill...don't keep the good stuff to your self!