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All Forum Posts by: Timothy Burns

Timothy Burns has started 8 posts and replied 55 times.

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19

@Theresa Harris

my first thought is to try and communicate a solution and give them a chance to fix it before I just start blasting with the violations. 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19

@Theresa Harris ok, so I set up inspection after a warning letter, discover they still haven't corrected the violation, now I post a notice to comply. 

if they don't, how do you handle that, straight to a lease violation with eviction notice or do you have a system where theyre allowed so many infractions? (understanding there are different levels of severity in infraction) 

after a re inspection do you just send them a letter stating the violation or do you use a form? 

I've downloaded the biggerpockets folder of mgmt forms and have used a few of them but don't see one for notice of violation after re inspection. So a letter is the best route for that? 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19
Quote from @Theresa Harris:

When you notice a lease violation, you need to talk to them and give them written warning.  then as Nathan said, do an inspection.  If they violate the lease again, tell them they had a warning and now they need to move or be evicted.


 and Whats the general response if you schedule an inspection, give notice, they ignore you and "arent' available" at the time that you come to inspect? 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19
Quote from @Chris B.:

Some good (and bizarre) advice above.  First the facts:

1. Does your lease require no smoking?  Sounds like no, so they aren't breaking any lease rule.  All you can do is talk to them and try to get them to clean up after them self and smoke outside.  My lease has a clear provision stating no smoking or vaping of any substance anywhere on the property.

2. Does your lease clearly state no pets?  Sounds like it does.  Talk with the tenant and get to an agreement you are satisfied with.  If no solution, you need evidence.  Photos of food and other rabbit accessories and most importantly a photo of the rabbit in the house will be the proof you need if this is to ever go to court.  No proof required to have a friendly talk with them though.

3. Long term guests.  Is this minor guest a family member?  If so, there probably isn't much you can do.  As you mentioned you pay utilities, you should have something in the lease for an extra utility charge per person and should follow that.  If you don't have that, there may not be much you can do.  

From the sound of it, you need a better lease agreement.  Seek out a copy of your state's Realtor's lease agreement and start with that.  The one I use covers 95% of what I need as-is and then I have an addendum.


 Also, what is the difference between a state realtor lease agreement and anybody elses? and where would I look to get one? 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19
Quote from @Chris B.:
Quote from @Timothy Burns:
Quote from @Chris B.:

Some good (and bizarre) advice above.  First the facts:

1. Does your lease require no smoking?  Sounds like no, so they aren't breaking any lease rule.  All you can do is talk to them and try to get them to clean up after them self and smoke outside.  My lease has a clear provision stating no smoking or vaping of any substance anywhere on the property.

2. Does your lease clearly state no pets?  Sounds like it does.  Talk with the tenant and get to an agreement you are satisfied with.  If no solution, you need evidence.  Photos of food and other rabbit accessories and most importantly a photo of the rabbit in the house will be the proof you need if this is to ever go to court.  No proof required to have a friendly talk with them though.

3. Long term guests.  Is this minor guest a family member?  If so, there probably isn't much you can do.  As you mentioned you pay utilities, you should have something in the lease for an extra utility charge per person and should follow that.  If you don't have that, there may not be much you can do.  

From the sound of it, you need a better lease agreement.  Seek out a copy of your state's Realtor's lease agreement and start with that.  The one I use covers 95% of what I need as-is and then I have an addendum.

As this was my first go round there were many things I didn't think about. 
I paid a local lawyer for a basic lease state specific, and have a blank copy of it printed out that I have been taking notes on what things to change on it. Will notify tenant before next signing that it has been modified from original and they NEED to read before signing. 

 1. No the current lease doesn't say no smoking but I did list it as such in the screening process. 

2. Clearly states no pets. 

3. Also states clearly no unlisted long term stays and no I am not sure about familial status, but either way the lease clearly only lists 3 people. 

4. The extra utility charge for extra guests is something I haven't thought about and will consider. 

Smoking: In general, a landlord can try to enforce any rule that is or perhaps is not in the signed lease.  Hopefully the landlord and tenant come to an agreement.  If there is no agreement, you still have options such as no lease renewal at the end of the period, or as you are considering, updating a lease agreement and requiring it be signed before the next term, or someone can file a legal action.  In the last case, a judge will likely only consider terms agreed to and signed under the actual lease itself as a primary source to decide upon.  Applications and such can be called in as needed and generally can be great supporting evidence, but my personal belief is that a judge is less likely to enforce any rule provided to the tenant in a document outside of the lease.

Regarding pets, the same above applies.  If you need to take it to court such as with an eviction assuming the tenant and you don't work it out, the judge is going to want to see the legal process with notices and warnings were followed exactly and also see the rule in the lease which clearly outlines the rule.  Also, she will want to see clear evidence that the pet is in the property.  A picture of rabbit food may not be sufficient.  A picture of the actual pet in a room that is clearly definable as being part of your property is more likely to provide sufficient support.  Pictures of the rabbit, food, cage, play items, etc... is best.  Also, if permissible by law, you can record the conversation with the tenant when you discuss the pet and if they admit to it, there is your evidence.  One side consent is legal in AZ where for recording conversations.  If you are in California, it appears both sides need to give permission.  You can get around this by driving to AZ and then making the call. :) perhaps this won't fly in a CA courthouse and this last part is humor and not legal advice.

Regarding leases in general, I like to look through leases to see other's approaches to creating them so I've seen quite a few.  My observation is that leases created by attorneys frequently are quite lacking and brief.  Maybe these attorneys don't have a lot of experience with rental issues.  I'm not sure.  And I have no doubt there are some solid leases written by attorneys.  I'd like to suggest the approach of using a lease created by an organization with extensive rental experience and then if you want, have your attorney look over that and give you the green light or suggest improvements.  Experience correlates to making sure provisions are included to cover ALL bases. 

The reason I mentioned that the minor may be a relative is that there are Fair Housing Act rules that disallow a landlord from discriminating against a family bringing in a minor even after the lease is signed in some situations. It can protect foster children for example also. There are limits and no one over 18 is protected. Being that is appears to be a duplex where you live in one half, it is very possible that the FHA does not apply to you. There are carveouts for landlords in similar situations where it does not apply and there is plenty of information about this online.

Regarding utilities... I have my tenant pay all utilities directly to the utility company.  They sign up when they move in and end the service when they leave.  I'm not involved.  If this is a single family property, you will be well off doing the same.  In CA, the only reason you wouldn't do this is if its a MFP with shared meters.  I'll assume you only have 1 meter for the property.  Consider getting the utilities and meters for the two units separated assuming its financially feasible.  Once they are separated, you'll have no more utility headaches.  You will be glad you did when that $1500 water bill comes in because a valve in a toilet failed and Lake Shasta went down the drain for a month and the tenant said nothing to you because they don't pay the bill.


 1. Yes, I am well aware of this caveat with the smoking rule, that it is hard to enforce which is why I've thought to remind of the cleaning fees associated with smoking and the possibility of losing security deposit. But if I don't have it in there then i have nothing to back me up anyway, whether it be a weak fight or not. Besides this fact, I would think tossing your butts out all over the property violates the general cleanliness clause in the lease. 

2. This WAS my main question, what is the best approach to take so that I have permission to go in and then am able to get a photo with them present. Im in kcmo. The lease with this tenant states clearly NO PETS otherwise a fine of $300 for each month the pet remains, and a lease violation. 

3. This tenant is section8 and in order to recieve the amount I do, I had to agree to pay water/sewer. Tenant pays everything else including trash. It's a small tradeoff. It is metered seperately though. 

4. Leases-yes I paid a lawyer for a state specific just so I had one that I knew conformed to state law and get this tenant in place, and after reviewing some other ones realize that indeed, yes it is very basic. 

So I have a copy of the bigger pockets lease and the lease from my old landlord from my renting days as I thought it was very thorough, 30 pages! I am reviewing the language and clauses in all 3 leases and will be combining them into one before the first year is up. 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
I don't have the California edition and I don't know California law that well. You'll have to research it yourself to see if my advice complies with law.

 I think you misunderstood what Im asking. 

Looked that book up on amazon but can't find one that clearly says whether or not it covers california law or the other states. 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Timothy Burns:

You should give them a written warning and a demand that they correct the violations within X days and pass an inspection. If they fail or refuse, you serve them notice of termination and expect them out in 30 days. If they fail or refuse, you evict.

There's much more to it than this, but it's hard to write a step-by-step guide for everything involved. The bottom line: if you have a rule, you need to be prepared to enforce it swiftly and professionally before it gets out of hand.

Do yourself a favor: buy "Every Landlord's Legal Guide" by NOLO. Written by attorney investors, it's full of practical advice pertaining to management of investment property, has sample forms that can be edited, and - most importantly - they tell you what your primary state laws are and where you can read them. It's updated every year and is the best $40 you'll spend as a Landlord. There is one book for 49 states and a separate book for California.


 I assume the California edition clearly states it as such? 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Quote from @Timothy Burns:
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Quote from @Timothy Burns:
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Quote from @Timothy Burns:
Quote from @Harold Looney:

Timothy Burns - welcome to landlording and house-hacking. The process to evict tenants vary based on location. What is your location?


 KCMO. 

I didn't think its at the point of eviction yet as Im really just becoming aware and haven't notified yet, but as far as the pet, I went in there over the weekend while they weren't home to do some preventative maintenance to the bathrooms and used that as my opportunity to confirm they had the pet. 


 Did you have permission to enter the premises?  Hopefully you gave them 24 hours notice (or whatever is required by the local laws).  

First, yes I had notice when I was working on the kitchen sink which is where I saw the rabbit food. 

That is really my question, now that I know they have a pet how do I go about entering the unit to confirm its there with their knowledge of me entering so that I can proceed with the discipline? 

 They knew you were going in and the rabbit was there, so talk to them about it. 


 no, let me clarify. 

to their knowledge, all i've seen was a bag of rabbit food.  

Is that enough to send a letter or would I have to enter later and see the animal with them present? 

Or do I go in for an "inspection" and then send the letter. (but they'll probably hide it from me before I inspect)


 If the rabbit food was in clear view, ask them about it.  Otherwise, do an inspection.

 yes, it was, under the kitchen sink which I was there to work on, I took a picture. 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19
Quote from @Chris B.:

Some good (and bizarre) advice above.  First the facts:

1. Does your lease require no smoking?  Sounds like no, so they aren't breaking any lease rule.  All you can do is talk to them and try to get them to clean up after them self and smoke outside.  My lease has a clear provision stating no smoking or vaping of any substance anywhere on the property.

2. Does your lease clearly state no pets?  Sounds like it does.  Talk with the tenant and get to an agreement you are satisfied with.  If no solution, you need evidence.  Photos of food and other rabbit accessories and most importantly a photo of the rabbit in the house will be the proof you need if this is to ever go to court.  No proof required to have a friendly talk with them though.

3. Long term guests.  Is this minor guest a family member?  If so, there probably isn't much you can do.  As you mentioned you pay utilities, you should have something in the lease for an extra utility charge per person and should follow that.  If you don't have that, there may not be much you can do.  

From the sound of it, you need a better lease agreement.  Seek out a copy of your state's Realtor's lease agreement and start with that.  The one I use covers 95% of what I need as-is and then I have an addendum.

As this was my first go round there were many things I didn't think about. 
I paid a local lawyer for a basic lease state specific, and have a blank copy of it printed out that I have been taking notes on what things to change on it. Will notify tenant before next signing that it has been modified from original and they NEED to read before signing. 

 1. No the current lease doesn't say no smoking but I did list it as such in the screening process. 

2. Clearly states no pets. 

3. Also states clearly no unlisted long term stays and no I am not sure about familial status, but either way the lease clearly only lists 3 people. 

4. The extra utility charge for extra guests is something I haven't thought about and will consider. 

Post: How to approach Lease Violations--Rookie First Timer Landlord

Timothy Burns
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 19
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Quote from @Timothy Burns:
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Quote from @Timothy Burns:
Quote from @Harold Looney:

Timothy Burns - welcome to landlording and house-hacking. The process to evict tenants vary based on location. What is your location?


 KCMO. 

I didn't think its at the point of eviction yet as Im really just becoming aware and haven't notified yet, but as far as the pet, I went in there over the weekend while they weren't home to do some preventative maintenance to the bathrooms and used that as my opportunity to confirm they had the pet. 


 Did you have permission to enter the premises?  Hopefully you gave them 24 hours notice (or whatever is required by the local laws).  

First, yes I had notice when I was working on the kitchen sink which is where I saw the rabbit food. 

That is really my question, now that I know they have a pet how do I go about entering the unit to confirm its there with their knowledge of me entering so that I can proceed with the discipline? 

 They knew you were going in and the rabbit was there, so talk to them about it. 


 no, let me clarify. 

to their knowledge, all i've seen was a bag of rabbit food.  

Is that enough to send a letter or would I have to enter later and see the animal with them present? 

Or do I go in for an "inspection" and then send the letter. (but they'll probably hide it from me before I inspect)