All Forum Posts by: Thomas Lillevold

Interesting threads on this.  After reading all the threads, I failed to see a convincing argument for using cash for keys method.   Although I would agree that it is faster and could be a little less painful depending on your feelings about paying extortion to rid a non paying tenant.   My core values simply will not allow me to pay a tenant that is willfully avoiding paying rent or stealing from me in other ways such as in my case with his unpaid utilities being attached to my property taxes.   Lets face it, if a tenant does not pay its the same as stealing.   

I will continue to follow through with eviction if this happens again in one of my properties.   I think the "pay them off" route is a bad idea unless it is for someone deserving of charitable gesture.   I would rather spend $3000 to put a thief out on their butt than give them the satisfaction of even just a $1000.   And I still say that doing "cash for keys"  is bad for the landlord community.   Many of you will disagree but I found the forum "Need some help here with tenants, serious problem, please!!" an interesting read.   I found it linked to this blog at the bottom, and it hits directly to the point I made in my paragraphs.

Another interesting update:  Word got around the building that the new owner evicted the guy downstairs.   Suddenly everyone is coming up to me and saying how glad they are that he is gone and that nobody was getting along with him.   Some people were afraid of him and that he was hostile and unstable.   He was pushing all his neighbors around about parking and everyone was happy to hear that he is being evicted...I guess he wasnt playing nice with his neighbors either and they all were very happy to see him gone....sounds like Karma.   How many good tenants did I just retain by getting rid of one bad apple in this way.   I also sent a loud and clear message to any other tenants that might have had an idea of not paying rent or not paying utilities.   I had the County Sheriff handle serving the papers and paid for the writ after I was awarded the eviction....they will physically remove him if he does not leave within the court designated time.   No grey areas in that message, leave or we will carry you out.   I dont like grey areas.   

Have a great day everyone!!

Yea...Screening is time consuming...do you charge for screening process Greg?

I currently do not, but sometimes feel i should because it takes so long to go through everyones background.

Greg and Kyle,

I definitely see what your saying and I did consider that in my decision.  Perhaps my way is more expensive, but in the long run (at least in my state of WI) it seems that its not really anymore expensive because I was awarded filing fees, court costs, lost rent, late fees, partial attorney fees, and have 30 days to amend for damages to the property....I agree its definitely faster with "cash for keys". but i wouldnt say its cheaper.  I have no idea what kind of price I would've had to offer for him to leave...$500 or perhaps $1000.   well with lost rent, unpaid utilities, unpaid late fees... and $500 to $1000 on top of that its in the $3000 neighborhood easily.   I was awarded $1500 by the court (amendment time still pending).   

Another point is this...I think this guy had the cash for keys thing offered to him in the past, I got the feeling all along during our arguments he was just waiting for me to go there.   I never did.   I did offer him forgiveness of his unpaid rent and unpaid utilities at one point, he turned it down...after I had warned him, if I go to court I'm going after him for everything.   I wasnt going to break that promise after all the arguing to get the rent out of him.   

I see the other side, I just hope I dont sell myself out and go there...I dont mean any offense by it, because I do understand the business relation you are talking about.   But if i give up fighting, its still giving up....not in my nature.   

Greg, 

I see what your saying on the money side and of course it makes sense if that is all that matters.  But in your second paragraph, you actually made my point arguing against it....lol. If landlords pay them off, you can never see that as the future landlord, thus the screening process becomes pointless and futile.  

Furthermore, If you paid him off to rid yourself of him, and he tries to rent from me next, If I call you while he is still a tenant of yours, you will probably tell me he's great and always pays the rent so you can be rid of him.   

It all comes back to the industry as a whole.      

Perry, Eric, Steve and Joel,  

Thank you for your inputs....Its always interesting to hear of the other stories out there.   I love the idea of a "watch list" Steve.   In my state, the public has full view of everyones record through a state website, I use it to background everyone and i actually do call all my prospective tenants previous landlords for a background....but I think sometimes that can be misleading because they may be eager to get rid of someone so may give them a good reference to pass them on to the next person.   

I use everything in my reach to collect as much as I can on each prospective tenant including driving past their current residence and having a look.   I take into consideration how the yard looks, do they leave garbage laying around, cars torn apart in the yard, things like that.   You can tell a lot by what you see where they are currently living.   

Thanks,

Tom

Greetings everyone,

I have to inject my personal opinion here.  I recently went through a bad eviction with a commercial tenant that I inherited with a building I purchased.   And all during conversations about this with fellow landlords in our area, many of them kept suggesting I offer cash to my tenant to hand over the keys to the property and walk away nicely and quietly.   Now first let me say that in certain situations I agree that this might be an appropriate technique.   but I have to say in most situations this is very bad for our industry as a whole and here is why.  

My particular tenant had a long history of criminal convictions, property damage and small claims against him (6 to be exact)  and 2 previous evictions.   If I had not inherited this tenant with my building purchase he certainly would not have been anyone I would rent to after a background check revealed these things to me.   

Now lets say the previous 2 landlords had used the cash for keys program on this person, now there is no visibility of eviction for me to see as a future landlord.   Also what message does this send to the tenant for his next tenancy?  He certainly has to be thinking If I push back maybe I can get some money out of this along with forgiveness of past due rent.  Now he tells his friends about it and now they are doing it...it sets a bad precedence all around.  

Maybe its just the military in me but the notion of giving my non-paying tenant money to hand me back control of the property never felt right.   I considered it briefly, but only briefly and knew that this was just not the right thing to do.   I decided that I have to be ready to fight this thing out in court to stop this tenant from screwing some other landlord.  

Once again, I think in different situations this might be an appropriate technique to terminate a lease on good terms.   If I had a tenant that had good intentions and fell on hard times, I would not hesitate to use this technique to  help them out and regain control of the property faster and to not needlessly tarnish someone record.   

The eviction process was very stressful and was definitely a pain in the hind end and somewhat costly (although the courts granted me some of my attorney fees back also which was a surprise to me)....but in the end it was well worth it and now the next landlord will be able to see what he is getting into with this guy because I took the steps to go after him through the legal system rather than just pay him to go away.     

So in closing let me please say to my fellow landlords....please be careful with this technique, I feel strongly that this can be very bad for all of us.   

I welcome your thoughts and stories related to this, I think it warrants a good discussion.

Very Respectfully,

Tom

Update:

I went to court and was awarded the eviction.   It was an interesting 2 weeks to say the least.  The first court date I showed up and he didnt so I was awarded the eviction, next day I received a phone call from my attorney asking me why I didnt show up...talk about instant panic.  I said i did show up, HE did not show up.   They then said later after some phone calls that he actually did show up late and convinced the judge to extend the court date to another day a week later....Talk about a bag over the head punch in the stomach.  My victory was snatched away like that.   So the next week comes and I show up again, and there in the waiting room is the tenant, ok no problem, we will have the fight, I'm ready with about 30 pages of documents and evidence to show to the judge.   The bailiff speaks to all of us and opens the door into the room, we all walk in and they call my case first.   I stand up...... He is nowhere to be found.   I won again...now Im really wondering what the heck is going on.   My attorney arrived a few minutes later and he starts storming into bathrooms yelling out the tenants name trying to find him so we cant say we didnt try to give him a chance I suppose.   I can only speculate as to why he would show up but not walk in to have his day in court and I think it is because he only showed up hoping I wouldnt so he could go in and get the automatic win by default....its the only thing that makes any sense to me.   

Anyway, just a note to say something to anyone reading this.  I considered the "cash for keys" program in dealing with this nonpayer.  Many landlord friends suggested it to me, many felt very strongly about it.   I actually thought about it a lot and it would have been pretty easy to do that and it might've worked but it never felt right to do that.   It was the principle of the whole thing that really bothered me.   He never made an effort to communicate with me.   He threatened every lawsuit he could imagine to change the subject from the rent he owed me to how I somehow owed him instead.  He never during his entire tenancy paid his water/sewer bill which was by now attached to my taxes.   Why on earth would I want to hand him money to get him out?!?   I came to the decision that the "cash for keys" idea  is very bad for the landlord community in general.   What example does this set for others and if word gets around by tenants they would be taking advantage of landlords every chance they get.    That being said, Im not totally against the "cash for keys" idea in a situation where a tenant has fallen on hard luck or they actually had good intentions.  I would do just that.   But this particular tenant had a criminal record a mile long, he had been arrested for stealing mail packages earlier in his life, he had been sued more than 5 times and evicted twice before.  He obviously has not fallen on hard times, he has brought hard times on himself and his family.   I have no sympathy for that.    In the end i won and happy for it.   It was a royal Pain in the A$$ but well worth it in the end and I would do it again.  Not only that, but now the next landlord can see that I sued him for eviction and won and they can be informed about what kind of character he is and make an informed decision prior renting to him.   Its what I would want to be able to see that matters. 

Good luck to all of you, I hope you only use the "cash for keys" program for those that actually had good intentions otherwise its bad for business for the rest of us.   

Thanks Brian and Steve,   

I agree....still no rent as of today.   Without this individuals rent I am upside down on this property.   What should be a good cashflow property is now liability. 

Hi Sterling,

I tried something similar in that I offered him forgiveness of his past due rent and even offered to pay his outstanding water bill to just leave nicely and quietly...He declined.

This person completely defies all logic....he  avoids all conversations about the rent and argues about the most ridiculous things to change the subject.   I've never met anyone quite like this person and hope I never do again.   

If i wasnt losing so much money on this guy, It would be hilarious.   Since I am losing money with him, its maddening.   

Help!!!   My first Eviction

I recently purchased a property for a steal and quickly found out why I got it so cheap....I just inherited the tenant from hell along with this building.   He refuses to pay rent, he has not paid his utilities, of which the county is tacking on to my taxes.   He does not play well with others at all.    Its like he is living in some sort of fantasy world where he expects to get use of this building rent free.   I am completely perplexed at the mindset of this person. 

I believe the previous owner was a big part of this problem but cannot be sure...I only met him twice before the purchase and he briefly showed up at the closing.    He did not strike me as having a very good business sense and that was confirmed when I saw his leases....they were 3/4 of a page long, didnt collect any security deposits from any of the tenants, worst leases I have ever seen in my life, so I can imagine the screening process took about 2 seconds....Luckily for me 2 out of the 3 tenants have been very good.    

Has anyone ever had a situation like this before?....I have served the PAY RENT OR VACATE notice and sat down with an attorney today to serve the official eviction to this gem of a person.    I was going to handle this myself but its my first eviction since we began 8 years ago and I didnt want to handle my first eviction on my own for fears of missing something...i figured Ill learn a ton from my lawyer during this process that may come in handy...but I hope not.

Does anyone else have anything to add or advice for a first timer at the eviction process?