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All Forum Posts by: Thomas Harris

Thomas Harris has started 2 posts and replied 16 times.

Quote from @Patrick Drury:

@Thomas Harris
Raising rents to market is the best option. As stated above, this would be a good time to take on a property manager and not deal with the headache, since you can't come to an agreement. 


I hear ya. Thank you for the advice. We have looked into PMs in the past, but their rates were expensive.

Quote from @John Clark:
Quote from @Thomas Harris:
Sorry, how does it not add up where? We have other rental properties besides our fourplex. But the fourplex is the only one with rents very below market. 

---------------------------------------------

Ah. Your post did not mention owning/discussing other properties, so I reckoned you were talking about the one property in question (I gave up mind reading years ago). You change the facts, I change the answer.

Are your other property(ies) below market, too?


Lol, yes, I can see how it looks a bit confusing. Our other properties are all at or slightly below current market, but only because they’ve all been rented this past year. Before that, they were in the same boat as the fourplex.

 We were not expecting to have so many vacancies one after the other but it turned out to be a good thing in the end because the previous tenants were way below market and it wasn’t hard at all to find nice qualified tenants to replace them at market price. I used to dread vacancies, as it used to be very hard finding qualified tenants. Many times we ended up settling for someone we normally wouldn’t rent to because we didn’t want to keep the unit vacant for months.
Quote from @John Clark:
Quote from @Thomas Harris:

My wife and I own a fourplex. It is fully rented and 3 of the 4 tenants have been there for several years. The other tenant has been there for 3.5 years. 

. . .

We’ve had 3 vacancies in the last 3 months and we do all the cleaning, painting, and minor repairs ourselves. She says she is exhausted and doesn’t want to deal with another vacancy.
-----------------------------------------------------

Your story doesn't add up. Beyond that, landlords should raise rents by some amount (inflation, anyway) every year to get tenants used to increases.

Sorry, how does it not add up where? We have other rental properties besides our fourplex. But the fourplex is the only one with rents very below market. 
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Thomas Harris:

Hi everyone, I know this question has been asked many times before, but I need to settle a disagreement with my wife so I am unfortunately asking it again. I apologize for the length of this post. Please bear with me. I am at my wits end.

My wife and I own a fourplex. It is fully rented and 3 of the 4 tenants have been there for several years. The other tenant has been there for 3.5 years. They are all paying $775 per month. Similar units in my area are going for $1,150 minimum. The average price seems to be $1,200 but there are a few posted once in awhile for $1,150. But for the past few months I have never seen a similar unit listed for less than $1,150.

My wife and I agreed that the rent is too low and we must raise it, but we do not agree on the price. I want to raise the rent to $1,000 and she wants to raise it to $950 or even $900. Her argument is that she does NOT a want to lose any of the tenants. My argument is that even though the increase is big, it is still $150 lower than what literally everyone else in a 100 mile radius is charging. She says I am being greedy and that if a recession were to happen, we would be lucky to get $300 rent for these units. I disagree.

All 4 tenants always pay the rent on time and take excellent care of the units, which is why I don’t want to raise to full market as I don’t really want them to leave.But my wife is terrified at the thought of any of them leaving to the point where she doesn’t want to raise it more than $950. She prefers we only raise the rent to $900.

We’ve had 3 vacancies in the last 3 months and we do all the cleaning, painting, and minor repairs ourselves. She says she is exhausted and doesn’t want to deal with another vacancy. I get that, I’m exhausted too. But it hasn’t been so bad. Our longest vacancy has been 6 days these past few months and it takes us about 2 weeks to get the unit back to the way it was before the tenant moved in. And it hasn’t been very hard finding highly qualified tenants to fill the vacancy either. I argue that with the increased income we could afford to hire someone to clean up the vacant units and do the work for us. She didn’t have much to say on that issue after that but she’s still fighting me hard on the price increase. She is convinced a recession is coming and says we we lose all of our tenants when that happens because everyone will be broke. So best keep the price low now so they won’t leave us later in a recession.

I am ready to give up at this point because I’ve tried so hard to get through to her. I’ve shown her all my research and just when I think she’s about to finally agree with me, she throws ‘recession’ in my face. So now I will go off to research how rentals fare during a recession.

But first, can anyone please tell me if raising the rent from $775 to $1,000 is a good idea or not? Am I being greedy? Or am I being foolish for not raising it even higher to be a bit closer to the $1,150 market rent? Is an excellent tenant worth missing out on $9,600 a year? 


 How about this Thomas, let's correctly RESTATE the situation. 

Fair market rent for the unit(s) IS $1,150.00, let's first get that out of the way. Discuss on that and that alone, as an island unto itself to get to agreement as to what the FAIR MARKET rent is. 

Ok, done deal, fair market rent IS $1,150.00 

Ok, who pays what % of the fair market rent? (pow, mic drop, walk away.......) 

Because that is the real truth and reality of it. Groceries have gone up, what % of those do you pay and what does someone else pay? Who pays what % of your property tax? 

What if, what if, what if..... That is the definition of a pointless conversation. What if China invades Taiwan, what if China nukes CA, what if E.Warren declares yes she actually is a Reptilian Over-Lord here to harvest humans, what if what if what if. 

The notion of "keeping" a tenant for eternity is insanity, your going to have vacancy, it will happen, accept it. Ownership of humans ended a long time ago, at least for everyone other then banks. So paying other peoples rent to try and get something that is not attainable is, by definition, crazy. (*don't say crazy to the wife, that's a fast-pass too divorce court, lol). But see the point. 

So question is, are you running a charity or a business? 

What % of your Happy Meal is McDonalds offering to pay? What % of your fuel is the fuel station offering to pay? 

What fair is fair. Offer your tenants FAIR MARKET RENTS, and if you want to be charitable I am happy to accept donations! OR give your tenants an addendum to lease WITH there GOOD TENANT DISCOUNT clearly listed. Don't raise rents, they will think nothing of you other then your a sucker, period. Nobody respects a sucker. Be stern but fair, fair market rents and if want to give a discount for something DO THAT but you must clearly state it, show it. 

And if the market drops guess what rents will do, exactly what they do at EVERY drop, rents will go UP not down. More demand = higher price, not lower. 

Hello James, thanks for the laugh! I really needed that. And thank you for your input, I found it very insightful.

You are right, I didn’t phrase my question correctly. What I really wanted to know from everyone, is: Is raising the rent from $775 to $1,000 when the market is $1,150 fair or not? I personally think $150 lower than market is very fair, and my wife actually DOES agree with me, BUT the reason she vets for $950 at most is because she doesn’t want to lose our great tenants.

 I don’t think any tenant would leave once they shop around and see that they are still paying below market rent, but to that, my wife says they will just move in with family if they can’t find a cheaper unit. I think she’s overthinking this. She is also overly worried about recession and wants to keep the rent low so the tenants won’t leave if/when a recession happens. Which I think is being a little paranoid. I agree with you 100%- you can’t keep tenants forever. They leave for all kinds of reasons and subsidizing their rent so they stay longer isn’t a good idea. 

Quote from @Sergey A. Petrov:

This doesn’t sound like a business decision question. If you and your wife can’t agree on something, posting on BP to get more “ammunition” to convince her is not the way to go. With that said, I’ll happily write checks for way more than $9.6k/year in exchange for our quality of life, my wife’s happiness and my own sanity. Talk to your wife and come to an agreement, don’t look for ammo on a public forum 

I assure you, it is. If I was looking for ammunition I would have posted this on Reddit instead. I did not post this with the mindset of “I know I’m right, let me post this so other people can tell me that I’m right so I can gloat to my wife”. I honestly don’t know if I am right or wrong or if there even IS a right or wrong answer. From what I’ve seen on the internet, it looks like the general consensus is “to keep up with the market, treat your business like a business and not a charity, no matter how good the tenant is, no one is good enough to throw away thousands of dollars.” I agree. My wife doesn’t. She values the tenants more than the loss of income and I wonder if this is a good business decision. The majority of people say that it is not, but maybe it is? I am genuinely looking for other peoples opinions on this matter, not ammunition to throw in her face. Her firm stance has made me question my own belief on this issue. That’s the main cause for my call for help. From a business point of view: what is the right answer? What would others do in the same situation? 

Perhaps I should have phrased it this way “My business partner and I disagree about rent increase price. They believe that raising the rent from $775 to $1,000 in a $1,150 market would cause all the tenants to move out, whether to a new unit or moving in with family, whereas I believe that the tenants are very unlikely to move out since the rent would still be $150 below market. What is everyone’s opinion on the matter? Are the tenants likely to leave or would they be happy the rent is still $150 cheaper than other similar units?

Hi everyone, I know this question has been asked many times before, but I need to settle a disagreement with my wife so I am unfortunately asking it again. I apologize for the length of this post. Please bear with me. I am at my wits end.

My wife and I own a fourplex. It is fully rented and 3 of the 4 tenants have been there for several years. The other tenant has been there for 3.5 years. They are all paying $775 per month. Similar units in my area are going for $1,150 minimum. The average price seems to be $1,200 but there are a few posted once in awhile for $1,150. But for the past few months I have never seen a similar unit listed for less than $1,150.

My wife and I agreed that the rent is too low and we must raise it, but we do not agree on the price. I want to raise the rent to $1,000 and she wants to raise it to $950 or even $900. Her argument is that she does NOT a want to lose any of the tenants. My argument is that even though the increase is big, it is still $150 lower than what literally everyone else in a 100 mile radius is charging. She says I am being greedy and that if a recession were to happen, we would be lucky to get $300 rent for these units. I disagree.

All 4 tenants always pay the rent on time and take excellent care of the units, which is why I don’t want to raise to full market as I don’t really want them to leave.But my wife is terrified at the thought of any of them leaving to the point where she doesn’t want to raise it more than $950. She prefers we only raise the rent to $900.

We’ve had 3 vacancies in the last 3 months and we do all the cleaning, painting, and minor repairs ourselves. She says she is exhausted and doesn’t want to deal with another vacancy. I get that, I’m exhausted too. But it hasn’t been so bad. Our longest vacancy has been 6 days these past few months and it takes us about 2 weeks to get the unit back to the way it was before the tenant moved in. And it hasn’t been very hard finding highly qualified tenants to fill the vacancy either. I argue that with the increased income we could afford to hire someone to clean up the vacant units and do the work for us. She didn’t have much to say on that issue after that but she’s still fighting me hard on the price increase. She is convinced a recession is coming and says we we lose all of our tenants when that happens because everyone will be broke. So best keep the price low now so they won’t leave us later in a recession.

I am ready to give up at this point because I’ve tried so hard to get through to her. I’ve shown her all my research and just when I think she’s about to finally agree with me, she throws ‘recession’ in my face. So now I will go off to research how rentals fare during a recession.

But first, can anyone please tell me if raising the rent from $775 to $1,000 is a good idea or not? Am I being greedy? Or am I being foolish for not raising it even higher to be a bit closer to the $1,150 market rent? Is an excellent tenant worth missing out on $9,600 a year?