All Forum Posts by: Travis Biziorek

Hey Matt,

We're still seeing strong numbers on 2-4 unit properties in Detroit, particularly on the off-market side. The MLS is tougher, but cash-flowing small multi-family deals are still very doable with the right approach. Happy to share insights if you're open to exploring a market like Detroit.

Leslie, sounds like you and your sister are in a great position with the capital and mindset to scale quickly. Detroit is a great place for that, but as you probably already know, it takes work and strategy.

For background, I moved from CA to Troy, MI, back in 2017, lived there for five years, and built my Detroit portfolio aggressively—12 doors in 2.5 years, generating $16,000/month in gross rents. It wasn’t easy, but it was one of the best moves I made. I now live back in CA, and my portfolio runs fully managed, but getting there took a lot of legwork upfront.

A few things that stood out from your post:

• If you’re focused on appreciation over cash flow, you’ll want to be highly selective in Detroit. There are strong path-of-progress areas, but you need to know the nuances.

• BRRRR still works, but it's not what it was 3-4 years ago. Appraisals are tricky, and refinancing can take time. Having cash ready to deploy is a huge advantage.

• Turnkey is viable but expect to pay a premium. If you want to build equity quickly, some level of hands-on involvement is key.

• I’m curious how you’re structuring your property management. If you plan to self-manage initially in MI but go full management in Detroit, you’ll want a very dialed-in team. That’s where a lot of investors struggle.

If you’re interested, happy to share more insights or resources to help you strategize. You’re thinking through things the right way, and Detroit can be a fantastic place to execute your plan if you get the right setup in place.

I understand your situation—investing in LA at today’s prices makes it tough to find solid returns. I’m also based in California and invest in Detroit, where prices are far more reasonable, and there are still strong cash flow opportunities.

Detroit has a solid rent-to-price ratio, improving economic fundamentals, and plenty of value-add potential if you have the right team in place. It’s not a market where you can just buy blindly, but for investors willing to do their homework, it offers a strong mix of cash flow and appreciation.

If you’re open to learning more, I’m happy to share some resources on how I’ve built my portfolio there. Let me know.

Detroit is worth considering if you're looking for a market where BRRRR is still very much viable. The rent-to-price ratios are strong, property values remain relatively affordable compared to many other cities, and the city has been seeing real economic and population growth.

I invest in Detroit myself and have built a portfolio of 12 doors there. The key to success is understanding the nuances of the market—different neighborhoods perform very differently, and having a strong team on the ground is essential.

If you're interested, I'm happy to share some resources on investing in Detroit and what makes it work for BRRRR. Let me know!

Hey Ben, welcome!

I’m also in California (Central Coast) and invest in Detroit. The affordability, strong rent-to-price ratios, and continued growth in the city make it a market worth considering if cash flow and appreciation are important to you.

If you’re still exploring markets, I’m happy to share insights and resources on Detroit. Let me know what you’re looking for!

Hey Steve, I write a TON on my blog about all the positive things that have been happening in Detroit in the last 10 years.

You have a lot of assumptions that are pretty common with the mainstream narrative around Detroit. Although, I'll say, the narrative has changed a lot in the last few years but if you aren't digging into the changes there I understand why someone still thinks this way.

In short, Detroit is not a boom-and-bust market any longer. Employment is well diversified and leadership is doing a lot more to continue that trajectory. 

It's worth digging in.

 Fair. I still believe Detroit wins on a risk-adjusted basis. Prices in Detroit are unlikely to drop at this point. The bottom is in.

Sure, there are other risks like age of housing stock, tenant base, etc. but a lot of that is normalizing as well. 

At the end of the day, real estate risk-adjusted returns aren't as easy to calculate as they are in the stock market. Real estate risks can't simply be quantified by historical returns.

So a lot of these risks (e.g. tenant risk) are weighted on a subjective basis by the individual taking on that risk. 

So for me, personally, the risk of investing in Detroit, compared to the potential for much higher returns, was more than palatable. I've had conversations with people where I literally tell them NOT to invest there because it becomes extremely evident that their risk tolerance doesn't align with some of the challenges of that market.

But again, I don't think you can quantify this with a simple equation because of everyone's varying risk tolerance for these non-quantifiable variables.

Your first reply to me literally cited only nominal returns. It's not until I called you out for it that you started immediately moving the goal posts to risk-adjusted returns.

And yes, being clear and concise is great advice always. 

If you think I don't warn people about the risks of Detroit you're incredibly ill informed. I literally have blog articles detailing why NOT to invest there.

But, by all means, continue to make assumptions. 

LOL, I already showed you ROI on $1MM invested in both markets.

We have not done a risk-adjusted ROI, that's correct. I'm not going to waste my time doing that and neither are you.

But that won't stop either of us claiming to be right.

And that's the beauty of it. I invest in Detroit because I've done a "quick and dirty" risk-adjusted return analysis for me, personally. And you've done the same.

I could invest in Nashville or anywhere else. But I favor higher returns, even if they come with higher risk.

Obviously, you're on the other side of the spectrum.

I don't care. But when you go around touting nominal returns while ignoring actual return on investment, I have to call that kind of silliness out.

Thanks, Jason, I very much understand risk adjusted returns. 

But that wasn't your argument. You were simply pointing to nominal returns and, now that you're clearly wrong, you're moving the goal posts.

Classic.

I have no interest in doing a risk-adjusted return analysis between Detroit and Nashville. If you do, I'm sure we'd all love to see your results and detailed methodology. I'd be willing to be Detroit still outperformed Nashville since 2019.

But I've already made my bet.