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All Forum Posts by: Sunny D.

Sunny D. has started 22 posts and replied 237 times.

Post: To rent or to sell

Sunny D.Posted
  • Pleasanton, CA
  • Posts 246
  • Votes 115

You get 500k of tax free gains on sale of primary home. Considering the high rates at this time and opportunity to lock in tax free capital gains of 500k, suggest you sell and lower mortgage on your new home 

Post: House flipping in current market

Sunny D.Posted
  • Pleasanton, CA
  • Posts 246
  • Votes 115

Post: Do 40 year mortgages make more sense for Buy and Hold?

Sunny D.Posted
  • Pleasanton, CA
  • Posts 246
  • Votes 115
Quote from @Nader Hachem:

I've been seeing some recent news on 40-year mortgages. I'm not sure if they even apply to investment properties, but i'm going to assume they do. Would this actually make more sense for Investment properties? Especially in a high interest market? Will this make things easier to get into a first rental property?

Now, one of the biggest cash-flow killers is the high interest rates, i.e. - high monthly mortgage. Would 40-year mortgages make it easier to get into long-term investment properties? I'm speaking on lower cost properties around 150-250K. I know this will also prolong the loan and in the end you end up paying more total for the property. 

My thought is that 40 year will allow you to get into these properties easier, since payment is lower which in turn allows for cash flow.. then maybe down the line you could refinance into a shorter loan.

Just some thoughts, i'd like to hear others thoughts too.

Personally a 40 year mortgage is a bad idea, some of the developing economies have these long dated home loans, it's a bad sign if these get popular in the US. 

For a 300k loan
Total approx. interest payments and equity growth after 5 years are the following in these 3 scenarios
https://www.calculator.net/
1. 15 year loan at 5%: $127K (total interest), $76K equity after 5 years
2. 30 year at 6%: $347K (interest), $21K (equity after 5 years)
3. 40 year at 6.5%: $543K (interest), $9.5K (equity after 5 years)

Rates will be higher for longer maturities. 

you barely build equity with 40 years, your goal should be to be debt free.

a debt free home giving you 2k cashflow with disciplined long term growth is better than 10 doors , 200$ cashflow.

I have 4 loans on my investment properties all for 15 year terms. Low rates, rapid payoff vs. perpetual debt

 

Post: Should I sell my house or rent it out?

Sunny D.Posted
  • Pleasanton, CA
  • Posts 246
  • Votes 115
Quote from @Becca F.:
Quote from @Sunny D.:
Quote from @Michael Cai:
Quote from @Sunny D.:
Quote from @Michael Cai:
Quote from @Corby Goade:

@Michael Cai Absolutely- you can still access most of that equity tax free if you keep it, and I assume you haven't had a buy and hold rental before? If not, you haven't even begun to experience the tax benefits and they only get better over time. 

Yes- keep it, and if you want to scale, get a HELOC before you move out and begin your journey. Don't miss the forest for the trees- there are thousands of people here who are kicking themselves for selling their primaries and flips without really considering finding a way to keep them.

I did my calculation, if I keep it long term - I mean really long term, suppose the property goes up to 840k in 13 years, not unreasonable, by that time my 15 tear mortgage is paid off..so I will have 850 minus 500k gain * 15% long term tax = $75k, so I after tax will have 775k, compare to sell it now and net 380 or 390k. Nothing else will make me an extra 380k after tax in 13 years, all while still cash flowing on that property, so you are completely correct that to build wealth I can hold it for a really long time and no worry about paying tax on the gain. Plus I already have a HELOC of 250k on that house, so holding long term is an option.. but if I sell it in 4 ,5 years then it's not worth having to pay tax

If I need the money then sell it in 2 years. Unfortunately I may need the money, I'm supporting wife and two kids :), either way I will rent it for two years and see what my situation is at that time and decide..

My first CA rebtal home in Folsom, I bought it for 255k in 2012. I rented for 1750$ and broke even on cashflow. I took a 15 year mortgage, refinanced at 2.25 pct and only have 40k left on the original 205k loan. I paid off a few 100$ a month once in a while . Property is worth 700k and rents now for 2850$ with 1000$ cash flow.  In 2 years I will own it clear. I don't plan to refinance,  the cash flow of 3000$ is what I seek. There is no need to keep chasing volume in assets, I have 2 other sfh in folsom that will be paid off in 10 years. Cashflow is not king, debt free with high quality growth assets is the king.

Are you saying I should keep holding this property and not selling it? 
Yes if it's a class A asset which will have a good balance of rent growth and appreciation , given you have a sweet mortgage.  Anything you buy for next 2 years, expect 6 pct min interest 

Eventually in 10 years you can 1031 to a high end investment asset if you are bored ;)

This is coming from someone who tried too many things in last decade (mostly in last 6 years)
- bought 7 sfh or duplex in Cleveland west side (sold 4 for nice profit , 3 left)
I won't buy there anymore, tenant class not appealing for me
- 2 flips in Cleveland,  marginal profit
- 1 sfh in Birmingham, will get rid of it someday
- 3 out of state flips in Chicago ( lost net 60k on all)
- 5 bay area flips with a partner ( my net profit maybe close to 300k)
- close to a million in multiple real estate syndication deals
- 3 sfh in folsom 

At this point, i will be happy to own 5 sfh in class a areas debt free and rest go for passive deals.

 

 That's quite a number of real estate transactions. On the Cleveland properties are these Class C or D when you said tenant class isn't appealing anymore? 

I just purchased a Class C potentially moving up to Class B SFH in the Indianapolis area. It's listed for rent by my property management team. My other 3 properties are Class A (two SFH, one in Bay Area, one in very nice Indianapolis suburb with great schools) and multi-unit in Bay Area (with co-investors). I'm not sure if I made the right move by going Class C but I can't give that house back to the seller lol...There's no Class A property anywhere that I've found that will positive cash flow or even break even (meaning rent covers mortgage PITI, not counting vacancy rate, capital expenses, or repairs)

I don't think I should 1031 exchange the Class A Bay Area SFH to buy 5 to 20 Class C properties in the Midwest (or anywhere out of the Bay Area like Central Valley or Stockton. That was the recommendation by a few investors. That seems like a huge headache. I'm at loss of what to do so I'm not buying anything for now until the Class C house gets rented out and put my money into index funds and a 3.8% premium savings account.


 Becca

You are doing the right thing by not flipping bay area home for 10x the headaches by buying a larger no. of low quality assets. The  cash flow crowd  and the ones repeating what the gurus tell feel the only way to be rich is to have 100s of doors. Multi asset offers scale but the days of easy money due to cap compression are gone and will not return. 

the issue with buying 10 of 100k homes vs. 1mm class A asset is that you have 10x PM costs, overhead, Capex costs turnover costs, and your probability of having atleast 1 bad tenant that won't pay and game the system is close to 100pct. PM charges for turnover are not cheap and pro forma usually underestimate true bills. Basic painting and fixes can be 3k per home , roof cost is same whether it's a 1mm home or 100k home. The reality is as percent of home value, your expenses will be a lot with class C. I made money in Cleveland (all class c+) as I bought cheap in 2017-2018. The homes I bought for 55k are worth 120k. If I included all the turnover costs and capex expenses, I didn't make any money via cashflow. I won't be buying there at today's prices as I will surely lose money with limited future appreciation. When markets go down, your class A home won't drop as much and will spike in next bull run. I can't afford in bay area to buy for investment home, so buy in folsom. When it's time to upgrade my primary home which has appreciated from 1mm to 2.4mm in last 10 years, I will rent it out and buy a new one as my mortgage is fixed and long term appreciation is enough for me vs. cashflow.

investing systematically every month into an index fund is a good approach. I think in 6 months to a year, as multi asset values drop when owners cant refinance and cashflow is negative will be forced to sell, you can consider investing into quality conservative sponsors into new syndication deals.

Post: Should I sell my house or rent it out?

Sunny D.Posted
  • Pleasanton, CA
  • Posts 246
  • Votes 115
Quote from @Michael Cai:
Quote from @Sunny D.:
Quote from @Michael Cai:
Quote from @Corby Goade:

@Michael Cai Absolutely- you can still access most of that equity tax free if you keep it, and I assume you haven't had a buy and hold rental before? If not, you haven't even begun to experience the tax benefits and they only get better over time. 

Yes- keep it, and if you want to scale, get a HELOC before you move out and begin your journey. Don't miss the forest for the trees- there are thousands of people here who are kicking themselves for selling their primaries and flips without really considering finding a way to keep them.

I did my calculation, if I keep it long term - I mean really long term, suppose the property goes up to 840k in 13 years, not unreasonable, by that time my 15 tear mortgage is paid off..so I will have 850 minus 500k gain * 15% long term tax = $75k, so I after tax will have 775k, compare to sell it now and net 380 or 390k. Nothing else will make me an extra 380k after tax in 13 years, all while still cash flowing on that property, so you are completely correct that to build wealth I can hold it for a really long time and no worry about paying tax on the gain. Plus I already have a HELOC of 250k on that house, so holding long term is an option.. but if I sell it in 4 ,5 years then it's not worth having to pay tax

If I need the money then sell it in 2 years. Unfortunately I may need the money, I'm supporting wife and two kids :), either way I will rent it for two years and see what my situation is at that time and decide..

My first CA rebtal home in Folsom, I bought it for 255k in 2012. I rented for 1750$ and broke even on cashflow. I took a 15 year mortgage, refinanced at 2.25 pct and only have 40k left on the original 205k loan. I paid off a few 100$ a month once in a while . Property is worth 700k and rents now for 2850$ with 1000$ cash flow.  In 2 years I will own it clear. I don't plan to refinance,  the cash flow of 3000$ is what I seek. There is no need to keep chasing volume in assets, I have 2 other sfh in folsom that will be paid off in 10 years. Cashflow is not king, debt free with high quality growth assets is the king.

Are you saying I should keep holding this property and not selling it? 
Yes if it's a class A asset which will have a good balance of rent growth and appreciation , given you have a sweet mortgage.  Anything you buy for next 2 years, expect 6 pct min interest 

Eventually in 10 years you can 1031 to a high end investment asset if you are bored ;)

This is coming from someone who tried too many things in last decade (mostly in last 6 years)
- bought 7 sfh or duplex in Cleveland west side (sold 4 for nice profit , 3 left)
I won't buy there anymore, tenant class not appealing for me
- 2 flips in Cleveland,  marginal profit
- 1 sfh in Birmingham, will get rid of it someday
- 3 out of state flips in Chicago ( lost net 60k on all)
- 5 bay area flips with a partner ( my net profit maybe close to 300k)
- close to a million in multiple real estate syndication deals
- 3 sfh in folsom 

At this point, i will be happy to own 5 sfh in class a areas debt free and rest go for passive deals.

 

Post: Should I sell my house or rent it out?

Sunny D.Posted
  • Pleasanton, CA
  • Posts 246
  • Votes 115
Quote from @Michael Cai:
Quote from @Corby Goade:

@Michael Cai Absolutely- you can still access most of that equity tax free if you keep it, and I assume you haven't had a buy and hold rental before? If not, you haven't even begun to experience the tax benefits and they only get better over time. 

Yes- keep it, and if you want to scale, get a HELOC before you move out and begin your journey. Don't miss the forest for the trees- there are thousands of people here who are kicking themselves for selling their primaries and flips without really considering finding a way to keep them.

I did my calculation, if I keep it long term - I mean really long term, suppose the property goes up to 840k in 13 years, not unreasonable, by that time my 15 tear mortgage is paid off..so I will have 850 minus 500k gain * 15% long term tax = $75k, so I after tax will have 775k, compare to sell it now and net 380 or 390k. Nothing else will make me an extra 380k after tax in 13 years, all while still cash flowing on that property, so you are completely correct that to build wealth I can hold it for a really long time and no worry about paying tax on the gain. Plus I already have a HELOC of 250k on that house, so holding long term is an option.. but if I sell it in 4 ,5 years then it's not worth having to pay tax

If I need the money then sell it in 2 years. Unfortunately I may need the money, I'm supporting wife and two kids :), either way I will rent it for two years and see what my situation is at that time and decide..

My first CA rebtal home in Folsom, I bought it for 255k in 2012. I rented for 1750$ and broke even on cashflow. I took a 15 year mortgage, refinanced at 2.25 pct and only have 40k left on the original 205k loan. I paid off a few 100$ a month once in a while . Property is worth 700k and rents now for 2850$ with 1000$ cash flow.  In 2 years I will own it clear. I don't plan to refinance,  the cash flow of 3000$ is what I seek. There is no need to keep chasing volume in assets, I have 2 other sfh in folsom that will be paid off in 10 years. Cashflow is not king, debt free with high quality growth assets is the king.

Post: Should I sell my house or rent it out?

Sunny D.Posted
  • Pleasanton, CA
  • Posts 246
  • Votes 115
Quote from @Michael Cai:
Quote from @Corby Goade:

There's no question here- keep it 100%. It will be cash flow positive, you have an interest rate that is a quarter of inflation- you'll never see rates like that again. You can depreciate it, you can leverage your equity and scale your portfolio. 

Think of it this way- almost any investor looking at deals today- if they saw the numbers you ALREADY have on this house, that would be a grand slam deal. 

Finally- you don't get free by selling your assets, you get free by keeping them, Don't lose sight of the prize and take the quick payoff VS the life changing, slow burn.

Best of luck!

I know, it's a shame to let this one go.. but are you saying I hold this long term? in which case I will have to pay taxes if I sell it after renting it out for more than three years.. Does the number still work if I hold it for 10+ years? 2100 mortgage is  a 15 year mortgage so will be paid off in 13 years if I leave it a rental.. If I have to sell it within three years, then it almost don't make a lot of difference if I sell it now or in 2-3 years.

Don't sell.

Always asset Quality vs. Quantity for long term wealth. Listen to people whose net worth is more than yours. 90pct of the cash flow crowd make less money in real estate than someone who has a class A property and gets increased cash flow as rents go up and gets appreciation as well over time.

You have couple of years to decide on selling to get primary owner tax free capital gains. Now is a bad time to sell as buyers are burdened by high interest rate. You know the area, self manage, find a qualified tenant with good income and credit history who can sign a 2 year lease. 

Quote from @Michael C.:

I have a SFH that has had a tenant(crackhead) squatting since last june. The marshalls FINALLY came to execute the eviction last week. The house is bad. Trash every where, all appliances destroyed, cabinets destroyed, bathtub tiled over?(really), ETC. Prop mgr thinks 30k at least to bring back to livable.(I'm in california) If you're wondering, original tenant was vetted and great for a couple years, got on drugs and his boyfriend stayed and squatted.

So my question is should I:

A. Repair out of pocket and sell. I would parlay the equity into a nicer place/ neighborhood.

B. Use some kind of financing to repair and if so what is a good option? I would then rent at a higher price. (I can only repair out of pocket if I'm going to sell as I need the money back relatively soon)

C. Don't repair and sell as is. 

I bought in 2017 so I have a lot of equity. In decent condition could probably get low to mid 200k's in current condition probably mid to high 100ks I would say this is a C neighborhood.I save all income from this property so I have some money put up for cap ex stuff but this will burn through that.  I'm not a super rich baller so I can't just pay whatever and let it ride. I'm honestly really mad someone would just destroy my house like this.  It comes with the territory but it's messed up.

So.... Any advice?

I'm happy to answer any questions.


 As someone who dabbled quite a bit on RE last 7 years, my suggestion is sell but buy in A or B+ neighborhoods , otherwise invest in a syndication with fully vetted sponsors. A lot of new sponsors popped up last 3 years when rates were low, go with ones with atleast 15 plus years of experience and understands risk 

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:
Quote from @Bill F.:

Terr-Leigh Huleis' current status

We haven't even touched the topic of heirs and what will happen when they learn of the sales terms AND if the seller had the mental competence to enter into the sale... I bet I know the position the former will take about the latter!


“Heirs” are aware… When she was in heart failure I contact all 3 to let them know and ask who could come down and be there, they all refused. They cut her off, one has legal troubles.
We tried to give everyone the option to step in, everyone opted to not be involved. We all make assumptions.

And we had multiple of her friends, church people involved to attest to competence. 

I’ve mentioned as much but I can’t convince you otherwise im sure.


 The fact thar within 24 hrs of the post, a pipe broke and cost went from 5k and a few hrs later to 25k fails the smell test. Insurance covers for this sort of damage. Did you get landlord insurance? 

Post: Researching rental market in Folsom

Sunny D.Posted
  • Pleasanton, CA
  • Posts 246
  • Votes 115

I got 3 sfh rentals in Folsom and never had issues finding good tenant. First home bought in 2013 and two last year. Only complain is that I didn't catch the trend and buy sooner. Typical sfh rent is from 2600 to 3000$ for 1750 to 2000 sq ft homes. I never had my home vacant for more than a week.