#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted For awhile there any negative comments on his YouTube channel were getting scrubbed immediately. It’s a shame YouTube hasn’t taken that channel down yet. I actually reported the channel as a scam because I got sick of seeing his ads. Maybe if more people report the channel it will get taken down.
This is unfolding like the Real Estate version of Fyre Festival or Theranos. In those cases both leaders (Billy MCFarland and Elizabeth Holmes respectively) doubled down on their scams even when it was painfully obvious their jig was up. They both still deny having lied to customers or misleading investors even after they've been proven guilty. A lot of smart people were duped in those two situations too, not just blind consumers but also sophisticated multi millionaire investors, when in retrospect it should have been obvious to everyone that the products were actually vaporware. There are many parallels to these cases and Morris: the schemes relied on a charismatic leader that inspired confidence and got investors to open their checkbooks with little due diligence, the scammers ended up being victims of their early success in that they oversold something and in the end couldn’t deliver. Also instead of admitting it when they should have they tried to sell and cheat their way out.
Regarding the blame game/ not taking responsibility: the problem with these Morris Invest deals began with Morris and the way they were sold by his company, so passing responsibility on to his partners doesn’t work for me. I think it’s safe to say that nobody could have delivered what he was selling in the volume he was selling it, and that’s probably what Oceanpointe will say in their defense. But let’s say he really didn’t know what was happening with his business and was simply set up by his partners; even given that (undeserved) benefit of the doubt, at the very least it was pointed out to CM early on through many, many investor complaints that he was the face of something that wasn’t right. So he knew then, why not stop selling at that point? He chose to keep taking people’s money. There’s also no doubt that he saw in person some of these burned out, economically and functionally obsolete houses he was selling. He knew or should have known they were not worth much, and connived his customers into overpaying for them anyway. He did this through not just his celebrity status, good looks and silver tongue, but also with a well designed and polished high pressure sales program that relied on fear of missing out and classic bait and switch tactics to rush customers into bad decisions without conducting inspections, getting appraisals or any of the usual due diligence. The way it was set up on both the sales end (his side of the biz) and boots on the ground side (Oceanpointe), seems very intentional and makes it hard to see it as anything but fraudulent in its entirety. At a minimum he continued doing business with the same partners well after he knew they were shady. Using his advice, which he was unqualified to give as a novice investor himself, people over-leveraged themselves on their personal residences, borrowed money from friends and family, scrounged up every penny of their life savings, and sent that money to his company in exchange for “financial freedom”, a product that wouldn’t be delivered. That makes him a willing, complicit, central player and perpetrator in a scheme that defrauded people. Whether or not he was the actual mastermind or just a hapless wingman isn’t that important and definitely doesn’t absolve him of guilt. Oceanpointe wouldn't have been able to pull this scam off at this scale without CM's marketing and willingness to continuing the charade when he knew people were being ripped off. He was robbing from Peter to pay Paul running a Ponzi scheme, that doesn’t happen by accident. But what else can he say except either “I’m sorry, lock me up” or “they made me do it”? Of course it's easier to place blame than accept responsibility, but throwing partners under the bus might not work to his advantage ultimately as I expect they are returning the favor by sharing info on him with the authorities now as well. To a scammer everyone is a mark including partners. I don’t have a dog in this fight, my only involvement is I have a friend who bought a Morris house and recommended them to me so I started researching on here and found all this. Now I’m just captivated by the slow motion train wreck it has become. I believe Bernie Madoff was first reported in 1999 and didn’t get busted until late 2008, so I guess these things just move painfully slow and are allowed to continue all the way up until they reach an absolutely egregious tipping point before authorites finally step in. Too bad for anyone caught in the web in the meantime. I think @Jay Hinrichs is right: sociopathic or at least pathological, but I’m no psychologist. It’s just that seeing it unfold on here, the way it was set up from the beginning then the crazy email chain that began after the unintentional cc’ing of all the disgruntled investors... and right at that point in time, when Clayton had to of been getting overwhelmed with calls from worried investors and their lawyers, I tuned in to his channel and he was releasing a video about how to avoid getting sued, with his wife in their living room. It does seem a little sociopathic. My guess is that he just wanted so badly to believe in his own success that he truly felt he deserved it. There had to have been an unhealthy dose of “dog eat dog” in his mentality. I don’t know if that’s sociopathic or pathological or just a millennial thing or what, all that’s beside the point anyway. Whatever happened/is happening over at Morris Invest, it ain’t right.
"my only involvement is I have a friend who bought a Morris house and recommended them to me so I started researching on here and found all this."
I'm interested in hearing more about this. How long ago did your friend invest? Has he had any problems? One house or multiple properties?
I actually have a consultation with MI on Monday. What questions should I ask? I dont wanna talk to them and just start bashing them for all the negative stuff I've read on here so how should I phrase it to try and get the info I need?
I have a bunch of questions I've already written down that are the standard DD type questions, but anything more I should be aware of?
Jeremiah my friend was an early investor and I’d say on the spectrum of MI properties he did ok in that he didn’t lose his whole investment like many did (just most of it). He’s lucky it was just one house and just a small portion of his overall wealth. He doesn’t like to talk about it much. You should do the call on Monday, I’d be curious to hear how it goes. Definitely ask for an independent inspection and an appraisal, or tell them you want to see the house yourself and have the standard contingencies. The answer to that will likely be revealing (hint: if they say there’s no time for that or make excuses, pressuring you to move quick, that should tell you everything you need to know. I’d also bring up the lawsuit and FFF BBB rating/ ripoff report articles and see what they say. Don’t be surprised if they hang up.
STeve I am of the other side of the coin.. I would advise to just walk away from these folks even if they cleaned up there act they have devastated 100s of investors who lost millions and they just pass the buck they are in multiple law suits AG is investigating hard.. why would anyone who knows all of this in their right mind even considering giving them any business at all.. they simply do not deserve to be in business they should be shut down and No one based on the past bad acts should give them the time of day once they have been made aware of the tragic events of the past.. These financial loss's to many are tragic life altering events Only thing worse is the death of a spouse or child to many of these investors.. With all the other providers in America that run clean shops there is nothing special or unique about what they sell.. they are in every market.. hard PASSS
Well yeah Jay I didn’t mean to imply that anyone should work with them, just that taking the call might be interesting from a sociological experiment angle ;). Then again I’ve been in sales most of my life so I’m entertained by swimming with sharks.
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted For awhile there any negative comments on his YouTube channel were getting scrubbed immediately. It’s a shame YouTube hasn’t taken that channel down yet. I actually reported the channel as a scam because I got sick of seeing his ads. Maybe if more people report the channel it will get taken down.
This is unfolding like the Real Estate version of Fyre Festival or Theranos. In those cases both leaders (Billy MCFarland and Elizabeth Holmes respectively) doubled down on their scams even when it was painfully obvious their jig was up. They both still deny having lied to customers or misleading investors even after they've been proven guilty. A lot of smart people were duped in those two situations too, not just blind consumers but also sophisticated multi millionaire investors, when in retrospect it should have been obvious to everyone that the products were actually vaporware. There are many parallels to these cases and Morris: the schemes relied on a charismatic leader that inspired confidence and got investors to open their checkbooks with little due diligence, the scammers ended up being victims of their early success in that they oversold something and in the end couldn’t deliver. Also instead of admitting it when they should have they tried to sell and cheat their way out.
Regarding the blame game/ not taking responsibility: the problem with these Morris Invest deals began with Morris and the way they were sold by his company, so passing responsibility on to his partners doesn’t work for me. I think it’s safe to say that nobody could have delivered what he was selling in the volume he was selling it, and that’s probably what Oceanpointe will say in their defense. But let’s say he really didn’t know what was happening with his business and was simply set up by his partners; even given that (undeserved) benefit of the doubt, at the very least it was pointed out to CM early on through many, many investor complaints that he was the face of something that wasn’t right. So he knew then, why not stop selling at that point? He chose to keep taking people’s money. There’s also no doubt that he saw in person some of these burned out, economically and functionally obsolete houses he was selling. He knew or should have known they were not worth much, and connived his customers into overpaying for them anyway. He did this through not just his celebrity status, good looks and silver tongue, but also with a well designed and polished high pressure sales program that relied on fear of missing out and classic bait and switch tactics to rush customers into bad decisions without conducting inspections, getting appraisals or any of the usual due diligence. The way it was set up on both the sales end (his side of the biz) and boots on the ground side (Oceanpointe), seems very intentional and makes it hard to see it as anything but fraudulent in its entirety. At a minimum he continued doing business with the same partners well after he knew they were shady. Using his advice, which he was unqualified to give as a novice investor himself, people over-leveraged themselves on their personal residences, borrowed money from friends and family, scrounged up every penny of their life savings, and sent that money to his company in exchange for “financial freedom”, a product that wouldn’t be delivered. That makes him a willing, complicit, central player and perpetrator in a scheme that defrauded people. Whether or not he was the actual mastermind or just a hapless wingman isn’t that important and definitely doesn’t absolve him of guilt. Oceanpointe wouldn't have been able to pull this scam off at this scale without CM's marketing and willingness to continuing the charade when he knew people were being ripped off. He was robbing from Peter to pay Paul running a Ponzi scheme, that doesn’t happen by accident. But what else can he say except either “I’m sorry, lock me up” or “they made me do it”? Of course it's easier to place blame than accept responsibility, but throwing partners under the bus might not work to his advantage ultimately as I expect they are returning the favor by sharing info on him with the authorities now as well. To a scammer everyone is a mark including partners. I don’t have a dog in this fight, my only involvement is I have a friend who bought a Morris house and recommended them to me so I started researching on here and found all this. Now I’m just captivated by the slow motion train wreck it has become. I believe Bernie Madoff was first reported in 1999 and didn’t get busted until late 2008, so I guess these things just move painfully slow and are allowed to continue all the way up until they reach an absolutely egregious tipping point before authorites finally step in. Too bad for anyone caught in the web in the meantime. I think @Jay Hinrichs is right: sociopathic or at least pathological, but I’m no psychologist. It’s just that seeing it unfold on here, the way it was set up from the beginning then the crazy email chain that began after the unintentional cc’ing of all the disgruntled investors... and right at that point in time, when Clayton had to of been getting overwhelmed with calls from worried investors and their lawyers, I tuned in to his channel and he was releasing a video about how to avoid getting sued, with his wife in their living room. It does seem a little sociopathic. My guess is that he just wanted so badly to believe in his own success that he truly felt he deserved it. There had to have been an unhealthy dose of “dog eat dog” in his mentality. I don’t know if that’s sociopathic or pathological or just a millennial thing or what, all that’s beside the point anyway. Whatever happened/is happening over at Morris Invest, it ain’t right.
"my only involvement is I have a friend who bought a Morris house and recommended them to me so I started researching on here and found all this."
I'm interested in hearing more about this. How long ago did your friend invest? Has he had any problems? One house or multiple properties?
I actually have a consultation with MI on Monday. What questions should I ask? I dont wanna talk to them and just start bashing them for all the negative stuff I've read on here so how should I phrase it to try and get the info I need?
I have a bunch of questions I've already written down that are the standard DD type questions, but anything more I should be aware of?
Jeremiah my friend was an early investor and I’d say on the spectrum of MI properties he did ok in that he didn’t lose his whole investment like many did (just most of it). He’s lucky it was just one house and just a small portion of his overall wealth. He doesn’t like to talk about it much. You should do the call on Monday, I’d be curious to hear how it goes. Definitely ask for an independent inspection and an appraisal, or tell them you want to see the house yourself and have the standard contingencies. The answer to that will likely be revealing (hint: if they say there’s no time for that or make excuses, pressuring you to move quick, that should tell you everything you need to know. I’d also bring up the lawsuit and FFF BBB rating/ ripoff report articles and see what they say. Don’t be surprised if they hang up.
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted @Account Closed
Joe have you been following this tiny home village's story in Denver?: https://www.gofundme.com/denvers-first-tiny-home-v...
https://belovedcommunityvillage.wordpress.com
https://www.radianinc.org/project/beloved-communit...
They've been getting a ton of press lately, both good and bad including a short documentary. I think they are located in RiNo as of now but have had some negative reactions from the locals there, even got raided by the cops at one point if I remember correctly. They were supposed to move to a new spot earlier this year but that fell through so now I think they're trying to move up to Globeville there behind the McDonald's but have had some pushback on that idea too.
Maybe you could link up with these guys (if you haven't already), as it seems they've been navigating the legal system as it relates to tiny homes in the Denver area for a few years. Their model is more geared for the homeless population as a charity compared to what it sounds like your model would be, but I imagine there would be some crossover with what you're talking about at least on the regulation side.
https://www.westword.com/news/advocates-announce-d...
https://denverite.com/2017/03/10/denvers-first-tin...
https://www.westword.com/news/denvers-beloved-comm...
I spent most of my 20's living in vehicles being a climbing bum (from as small as a Suburu wagon to as big as an old school bus, and even managed to keep attractive girlfriends around most of the time, so don't listen to these negative Nancys on here, chicks actually really dig this stuff). For me I'm fine dealing with a space that small, it's actually preferable in a zen way. But I do like to be able to jump into the driver's seat and hit the gas when things get weird, so I really like having access to the cab from the living space, and an operable motor of course. Here's my current "tiny home":
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted @Jimmy Lieu 2019 is probably going to be a better time to invest than 2029. They say the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, and the next best time is right now. To be fair, it is kind of hard to find good deals right now. So the answer, like the answer to so many questions in real estate, is it depends. It depends on the individual deal, it depends on the individual market, it depends on the individual strategy. If you’re looking to fix and flip in an extremely hot location, and you’re working with a tight budget that requires hard money, it may be challenging to find a property plus a bit risky on the exit as we will probably have fluctuation in the market soon. If you’re looking for a buy and hold that you plan to sit on for several market cycles, and you have the cash reserves to weather a few storms, I say go for it. If you have access to a deal that cash flows and/or meets your personal criteria, definitely go for it.
For all of us investors, newbies with more than 0 properties or whatever, I want to ask one simple question... How did you feel on your first investment property and how did you think the market was on that time frame?
I can tell you, I felt somewhat excited, but terrified at the same time. I invested in a deep down market about to start recovering (2012), but it was all worth it at the end. If I knew better I would have more properties or deals within that time frame, but I'm not these savvy economist that can predict the future.
Just saying there is a lot of things to consider and learn at once for new investors. In my opinion, today is a good market to invest, tomorrow may be a little bit expensive (or cheaper) but eventually it will fluctuate and average the trend (appreciation or keep up with living costs) . One thing for sure is the cost of living and Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is going anywhere but UP.
I’d say if you can find a good deal in 2019, go for it! And send one my way while you’re at it.
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted @Scott Houin if the question becomes “is it harder to replace a tenant or a pm”, I’m gonna go with pm every time. Some pm’s are incompetent, some are crooks, and a few of them are ok. Hold on to the ok ones. It’s a hard job, and unfortunately, ok PMs are hard to find.
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted @Stephen Shelton Actually you’re not responsible for any of the things you mentioned (trees falling, dogs biting, old people slipping) unless somebody can prove you negligent, just like the utility is daring you to try and find them negligent here. A retainer will cost you more than making the repairs, and you’ll probably lose. I remember hearing lots of nasty lawyer jokes growing up and wondered why everyone gave lawyers such a hard time. This is one example why (no offense to any lawyers reading this, I’m sure some of you are fine people) ;).
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted @Jimmy Lieu 2019 is probably going to be a better time to invest than 2029. They say the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, and the next best time is right now. To be fair, it is kind of hard to find good deals right now. So the answer, like the answer to so many questions in real estate, is it depends. It depends on the individual deal, it depends on the individual market, it depends on the individual strategy. If you’re looking to fix and flip in an extremely hot location, and you’re working with a tight budget that requires hard money, it may be challenging to find a property plus a bit risky on the exit as we will probably have fluctuation in the market soon. If you’re looking for a buy and hold that you plan to sit on for several market cycles, and you have the cash reserves to weather a few storms, I say go for it. If you have access to a deal that cash flows and/or meets your personal criteria, definitely go for it.
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted Another consideration (sorry to pile on the bad news), is that the market here is very hot anything sub $700k going up to about $1M, because that's still considered entry level. Once you get into luxury range, which for here starts just below where you're talking about with your ARV being $1.45M, it's not nearly as strong a seller's market. To fetch $1.45M you'd have to have extremely top-end finishes, at least 3-4 beds, garage, flatiron views, good location (which "The Hill" is definitely not, you do not want to be there with a family unless farther over on the Chataqua side or over Rose Hill way, anything 1 block from CU will be student housing). To compete in the $1.45M range you're talking $300-350/ft2 construction cost, not exaggerating. You need to be looking more in the Whittier/Newlands/North Boulder area for your plan, but you likely won't find anything near that price in those areas unless its a total scrape. You will probably need to go more distal like Gunbarrel (maybe, also getting expensive) or out east to the L towns Lafayette or Longmont (Louisville already too expensive).
Mindy is not exaggerating on 1,000 years to get a permit (okay, she's slightly exaggerating). Rentals are required to comply with the rental housing license program which means inspections which means you can't just make a porch into a bedroom without approval (you may be able to get away with it for a while but the enforcement division is real and the fines are too). Popping the top or adding anything beyond 500ft2 means going through the dreaded "site plan review" process which is based on the LEED points program/ IGCC (green construction code) and you'll end up spending a fortune on insulation, solar, high E windows and appliances, etc. You may have to comply with the new "smartregs" program which means many of these same efficiency upgrades just to get your rental license. Boulder is a great place but you've got to be on your A game here. I guess they figure since we have the highest percentage of residents with PHDs in the country we all must have the requisite PHD required in order to navigate the maze of regulations.
Longmont is really up and coming; the SW side closest to Boulder is really nice and has good schools, quick access to trails, etc. Longmont has many of the advantages that Boulder has but property is still relatively reasonable by comparison. Lots of good stuff planned for Longmont so long term I think there's a lot of potential. Demographic is shifting with a lot of young families ending up there; bike paths going in, breweries galore, more and more good restaurants opening, etc. plus Boulder is only 15-20min away. Just avoid the NE end of town, generally speaking of course. It will likely be "transitional"/stabby up that way for a while, although there are some nice pockets up that direction which are totally fine right now. Lafayette is also up and coming, Erie too.
I think you should abandon this plan because the location is not right for what you want to do. Comps in that area do not support an ARV of $1.45M. Also there's no way a 1.3 acre lot exists near where you're talking at that price, so it must be 0.13 acres. A 1.3 acre lot that close to CU and downtown would be closer to $5M.
Keep looking around. You mentioned Denver was an option, and you'll have a lot more to choose from down that way (I like Golden a lot regarding Denver suburbs). Good luck!
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted I've had good success ordering from Lowe's (vinyl Pellas, much less expensive than something like Anderson at Home Depot). I always negotiate and usually end up getting 30-50% off, or wait for a sale. If it's just a few windows or if I'm concerned about rotten wood around the opening or additional insulating etc. I'll do it myself but if it's straight forward and there are a lot of windows or I don't have time I have a guy who does it for $125-150/window. I would let him measure if he's doing it, but I take his measurements and order and deliver the windows. Using the installers at the box stores is generally a bad idea. My guy used to work directly with Lowe's and explained to me how they squeeze their installers so much they end up not being able to keep good installers. I've followed Home Depot guys on job sites before, not saying they're all bad but in my experience some of the worst quality work I've seen, as in it all had to get redone. As far as just replacing the glass, that's definitely the least expensive way to go if the frames are in good shape, glass is cheap and glazing is easy.
#2 Real Estate Success Stories ContributorPosted I think this is getting slightly blown out of proportion. Being involved on a daily basis with commercial and residential properties there are a significant amount of changes being done to energy codes which are causing new construction costs to significantly increase. Having tighter homes with low air changes per hour is leading to more homes requiring spray foam insulation (more $) and more efficient HVAC systems with ERV's. Solar is just one additional component.
Have some free time check out the IGCC (international green construction code) which many municipalities are now requiring properties to meet as part of their code. These are no longer optional they are required.
What is the payback time in California for solar? I know in VA it is 14 years but if I was in MD or DC it is under 5.
Chris you're absolutely right. Earlier in the thread we discussed how it was really a shifting of cost more than an additional cost.
CA payback period for solar 2019= 5.5-7.4 years (https://www.energysage.com/solar-panels/ca/), or it could be cooked into the mortgage for new construction, estimated $40 per month on average, offsetting $80 in electricity, so net $40/mo. savings. Most people are financing solar these days, because $0 down low interest loans are available and payments are often less than the bill they're replacing. $0 down with savings day one is the name of the game.
