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All Forum Posts by: Stephen Dispensa

Stephen Dispensa has started 18 posts and replied 158 times.

Post: The Property Management Fee that can actually make you MORE Money

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238
Quote from @Bill B.:

@Drew Sygit the realtor gets 100% of the $300

@Stephen Dispensa you obviously build in yearly increases in your longer leases. I understand you can cherry pick to make your case but but once in a lifetime rent increases don’t make your case. Do you really expect 100% rent increases in 2 years any time during the rest of your life? You’re more likely during the next 2 years to lock in 5-10% increases while the market experience 3-5% increases. And don’t forget, avoiding 1 months vacancy and turnover because of the longer lease is worth at least 8%. 

I guess this could all be solved by hiring an ethical PM that puts their customer’s success ahead of making or losing $80. It sucks if you’re surrounded by PM’s willing to screw you over such a small dollar amount. I assume they are also hiring their brother the plumber and sister the electrician and padding their pairs as well. That’s too bad. 

Maybe try my suggestion for MTM to avoid the fees and the temptations, as well as allowing rent adjustments every 60 days. That way you don’t lose out on 10 months of rent doubling like you obviously did with your yearly leases. The tenants really do tend to stay for years and years at MTM. 


 Generally speaking the type of tenants who go for MTM in my market tend to be in C class properties and below. I only manage A and B class properties unless I'm working on a value add C class that I intend to bring up to A or B. In that example I would allow for a MTM as we prepare to turn units but that's really the only situation. 

Regarding the ethics of property managers, I couldn't agree more and it is a MASSIVE problem. Before I started PM'ing myself I saw other PM's give my client outrageous estimates that they were clearly taking kickbacks on. But the point of my original post was not to suggest a renewal fee IN PLACE of ethics. My point was to show the financial reality of these situations and the disparity in income for a PM vs a Landlord. But frankly, I don't think the solution is to build a system where a PM can potentially benefit by acting against the interests of a Landlord. I think my solution, which is a system in which there is a financial incentive for all parties to cooperate is the best answer. 

Post: Self Directed IRA Funds

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238

The BIG thing alot of investors miss when investing directly from a Self Directed IRA or 401k, is you can't invest directly in a company you or your spouse are managing. They need to be passive investments.

As an example, if you opened a pizzeria and were the active manager of it, you could not invest your self directed funds in that asset. 

If your friend wanted to open a pizzeria, you could use the funds to passively invest in it. 

Same principle applies to real estate. To remain compliant, you need to team up with an active partner who is going to manage the investment. Whether it's a house flip, a value add multifamily building, or a commercial retail property, the active manager of the LLC who owns the asset CANNOT be the person who holds the Self Directed Account investing in it.

Back in 2018-2019 this was how I funded most of the flips I worked on. I served as the active partner and managed the flip while individuals with Self Directed QRP's (qualified retirement plans) were able to invest their money passively. 

Now, if you're looking for a lender that works with self-directed qrp's, that's a WHOLE other problem . . . 

Post: The Property Management Fee that can actually make you MORE Money

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238
Quote from @Bill B.:

You forget. The PM does maybe 1000% more work finding a new tenant? They make the higher renewal income by emailing a form for the tenant to sign. They make the new tenant fee by spending hours advertising, interviewing, backgrounding, showing, collecting applications, plus managing cleaners and repairs. Any PM that thinks that extra $400 is money well made will be out of business before his competition is able to steal the client. 

Ps. In Vegas there’s a flat $300 new tenant fee, nobody should be paying 1/2 month ($1000+). And the renewal fee is $150 (which seems high for sending an email but that’s what it is.) so the PM makes an extra $150 except they lost out on 8% of rent for the 2 weeks vacancy @ $2,000/mo so that’s $80. If it takes a month to make ready and refill they actually lose $10 over a renewal. 

Pps. This is another advantage to 2-3 year leases when dealing with SFR. 1/2 to 1/3rd placement or renewal fees. Or if you don't like that idea switch to MTM and avoid them both. I've done both. While I prefer the planning that can be done with 2-3 year leases, MTM tenants seem to forget they can move and stay even longer with no lease renewals to remind them another year has come and gone.

- When tenant placement is systematized it is a bit less arduous than you describe, but yes there is significant work involved in a turnover. 

- A renewal goes beyond "sending an email" and as I have stated in my original post, involves all the actions taken year round in terms of customer service. 

- As a tenant I'd GLADLY take a 2-3 year lease in my market as rents continue to appreciate. My tenants would kiss me on the mouth if they could have locked in their leases 2 - 3 years ago. A landlord locking in 2-3 year leases would have missed out on nearly 100% rental appreciation in my market in the last 2 to 3 years. This is bad business and I would NEVER recommend it to any of my property owner clients.

Post: The Property Management Fee that can actually make you MORE Money

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238
Quote from @Brandon Vanderford:

Turnovers are *A LOT* of work. Leasing fee or no leasing fee, I have never known a PM who preferred a turnover to a lease renewal. Speaking from my experience, the PM and owner have highly aligned interests. 

That being said, I agree that a lease renewal fee is appropriate.


 The point of my post wasn't to suggest that there wasn't significant work involved in a turnover. But far more importantly is to realize the financial disparities between a no fee renewal and a turnover. It's literally 1/3rd of the property manager's revenue to do a turnover in this situation and it FAR outstrips any losses the PM has from vacancy expense. However, at the same time it costs the landlord a HUGE amount.

Post: The Property Management Fee that can actually make you MORE Money

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238


 @Drew Sygit - I've actually been pricing this way for all my customers and it's been working out well so far. I had a tenant two months ago who the moment I took over as property manager informed me that she would not be renewing her lease. She said property management had changed too many times, and she had nothing but bad luck and wasn't willing to give me the benefit of a doubt. Well two months later I have single handedly repaired that relationship and she is renewing.

@Bill B. - Is that a city law regarding what can be charged or just industry standard?

Post: The Property Management Fee that can actually make you MORE Money

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238

Property Managers and their fees are an almost unavoidable part of building a real estate portfolio. But what if I told you that your property manager can charge you a fee that will actually make you MORE money in the long term?

One of the most common complaints I heard from my Real Estate Investor clients was that they couldn’t find a reliable property manager. Before I had started my own brokerage/property management company, clients would purchase a property with me and then shop around for a property manager. After working with these property managers, the complaints I heard were common: “fees are too high, the contractors they hire for renovation/repair are too expensive, they’re not responsive when I call/text, they don’t DO anything, they’ve NEVER BEEN to the property, etc.”

So in 2022, I got my full broker’s license in Florida and started my own property management company. Now most of the complaints were pretty easy to fix; contractors are too expensive? Shop around for quotes or draw from my already established network of reasonably priced quality contractors. Previous property manager slow to respond? I respond and answer my phone always. They’ve never been to the property? I make sure to inspect every unit as soon as I take over a property. This is all customer service 101 and frankly NONE of these items should even be in question when hiring a property manager.

But then I got to the fees, and this was an area where I needed to give more thought. A Google search of typical property management fees shows fees ranging from anywhere from 6% to 12% of gross rents plus a placement fee of anywhere from ½ month to 1 and ½ months rent for placing a new tenant. And it was this fee in particular that got me to thinking perhaps the landlord and the property manager’s interests aren’t exactly aligned. Let me give you an example:

Let’s say we have an apartment on a 12 month lease at $1,000 per month. Landlord Joe hires Property Manager Ed to manage the property. And for the sake of this argument let’s ignore all other expenses (taxes, utilities, lawn service, etc.) Property Manager Ed charges Landlord Joe 8% of gross rents as a property management fee, and he charges a ½ months rent for placement fees on a new lease. And let’s look at this in terms of an apartment available starting January 1st for a term of 1 year ending on December 31st 12 months later.

So let’s say Property Manager Ed finds a tenant and moves them in on day 1. Out of that first $1,000 rent payment:

Month 1:

Ed Receives: Placement fee: $500

Property Management Fee: $80

Total Fees: $580

Joe Receives: Balance: $420

Now let’s say over the next 11 months, everything stays stable, there are no other expenses. In that time frame, each party will receive the following:

Month 2 – 12:

Ed Receives: 11 Months Prop Mang fees $880

Joe Receives: Net Rent Balance: $10,120

So at the end of year 1 their totals are as follows:

Year 1 Totals:

Ed (Property Manager: $1,460

Joe (Landlord) $10,540

Ok so not terrible so far. Ed has brought in some income for managing the property, Joe has received his net rents, everything looks good. But now that the lease is up, Property Manager Ed and Landlord Joe’s interests start to diverge. And it’s all based on whether the tenant decides to RENEW.

There are many factors that affect whether a tenant will renew: Pricing/lease increases, current job/life situations, satisfaction with their rental, etc. Pricing we have control over through negotiating rent, however our pricing strategies will always be based around market conditions. Landlord’s obviously want the maximum return on investment so we want rents to be as high as they can be while maintaining low vacancy. The tenant’s job/life situation we have no control over. However there is a massive area that we can influence to help a tenant decide whether to renew, and that is TENANT SATISFACTION.

Are their maintenance requests addressed in a timely manner? Does management ensure their quiet enjoyment of the property? Does the trash get picked up on time? Heck, what is their relationship like with the property manager.

The way I view it, is the customer service portion property management is actually SALES in disguise. I am year round SELLING my tenants on the prospect of renewing. Making sure they have everything they need and addressing issues as soon as they come up. I’m establishing an ongoing relationship with them because I WANT them to renew. The reason I want them to renew is because keeping vacancy low is in my Landlord’s best interest. But is it in my best interest as a property manager? Let’s look again at the example of Property Manager Ed and Landlord Joe and see what happens at the renewal point.

Let’s assume a simple renewal at an increase of $100 per month, bringing gross rent to $1,100 per month.

Year 2 Lease at $1,100 per month

Ed Receives: 12 months Prop Mang fees: $1,056

Joe Receives: 12 Months Net Rents: $12,144

In this simple renewal, things are pretty straightforward. Joe makes nearly 13% more in year 2 between a combination of higher rent and not having to pay a placement fee. However, Ed makes 28% LESS in year 2 because he didn’t have a placement fee. That is not an insignificant amount, Ed is missing out on almost a third of his income because he RETAINED a tenant. This is a clear conflict of interest financially when a property manager stands to lose a third of their income when acting in the best interest of the landlord.

Now let’s look at what happens if the tenant decides not to renew and the unit is going to be vacant for some time. Maybe Ed is not that great of a property manager and doesn’t answer his phone when a service request comes in. Maybe he’s rude and gruff with the tenants. Maybe he’s more interested in larger properties that he manages for other clients. Either way, Ed has done a poor job and is at least partially responsible for the tenant moving out. Let’s assume a 45 day vacancy period before Ed finds a new tenant.

Year 2 Lease at $1,100 per month

Vacancy: 45 Days

Month 1: No Income, unit is vacant

Month 2: 15 days pro rated – Gross Rent = $550 collected

Ed Receives:

Placement Fee: $550

Property Mang Fee: ($44) Insufficient balance will need to be collected the following month

Joe Receives : Net Rent Balance: $0

Month 3

Ed Receives:

Balance of Prop Man Fees Due: $44

Prop Man Fees: $88

Joe Receives:

Net Rent Balance: $968

Month 4 – 12

Ed Receives:

Prop Mang Fees: $792

Joe Receives:

Net Rent Balance: $9,108

Year 2 Totals:

Ed Receives: $1,474

Joe Receives: $10,076

Look at the difference in the numbers based on these two scenarios:

With Renewal:

Ed Makes: $1,056

Joe Makes: $12,144

Without Renewal:

Ed Makes: $1,474

Joe Makes: $10,076

Do you see the problem here? The property manager makes 40% MORE per year if a tenant moves out. And the landlord makes nearly 20% LESS over that same time period due to the vacancy expense. The property manager is actually INCENTIVISED to get tenants to move out which causes the landlord to lose money.

So what is the solution to this? As crazy as it may sound, a property manager charging an additional fee might actually benefit both them AND the landlord and align their financial interests. We call this a “renewal fee”. Essentially it’s a financial incentive for the property manager to retain the tenant. Let’s look at the same renewal example again except in this case the property manager charges 20% of one months rent as a fee for renewing a lease.

Year 2: Lease Renewal at $1,100 per month

Month 1:

Ed Receives:

Renewal Fee: $220

Property Management Fee: $88

Joe Receives:

Net Rent balance: $792

Month 2 – 12

Ed Receives:

Property Management Fee: $968

Joe Receives:

Net Rent Balances: $11,132

Total Year 2 Income:

Ed: $1,276

Joe: 11,924

Now in this situation, Ed has made $200 less than he would have made if he had to place a new tenant, BUT he also didn’t have to do the work of placing a new tenant, he simply had to negotiate and draw up a lease renewal. Joe on the other hand, made $1,800+ more than he would have if they had to place a new tenant. And the fee that incentivized Ed only cost him $220, which is only 1.6% of the annual gross income from the apartment. This should be a very MINOR expense for a landlord. But for Property Manager Ed, $220 is a nearly 20% boost to his income and is a significant motivator. If you knew you could get a 20% bonus on your salary every year, how hard would you work for it?

Under many property management agreements, the property manager can actually makes MORE money year over year by placing new tenants, even if it isn’t in the best interest of the landlord. Even losing 45 days worth of property management fees, they still make more that year because they placed a new tenant.

By utilizing a renewal fee, the interests of a landlord and a property manager in line. The property manager makes slightly less money renewing a lease than if they placed a new tenant, however a lease renewal is far less labor intensive than placing a new tenant. There’s no showings, no background/credit checks. It’s simply a negotiation on price and then drawing up a new lease.

Vacancies and new tenants are an unavoidable part of property management, but every landlord should be asking themselves whether their property management contract has them setup to minimize vacancy expense. The best way to do it, is to incentivize your property manager to retain tenants.

Post: Contractor site visit fees – what's "normal"?

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238

It's a tough one. I have worked in construction in the past and continue to project manage on select jobs for my clients. 

Residential Renovations are a tough market. Margins are razor thin, the work is often time/labor intensive and can get even more complicated when permits are involved because of the difficulty involved in retrofitting an old home to current code. 

So if a client is out getting 100 different estimates, and you've got a ton of work on, do you really want to waste all the time it takes to put together an estimate? So on that level I understand charging for a site visit and estimate. 

On the other hand, if it's a contractor you've worked with before and have a history with, they shouldn't really be charging you that. 

I think the fair answer would be to charge an estimate fee but that fee gets rebated out of the contract if the contractor gets hired.

Post: Validating that a garage conversion was legal in Tampa Bay Area

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238

Amelia,

Generally speaking you won't have any issue with this conversion. The information you listed from the tax records showing the former garage listed as BAS means it is counted in the heated square footage of the house. This means the work was permitted at some point and is counted in the legal square footage of the house. You are good to go.

Post: Apartment Syndication Coaching

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238

Vinny Chopra and Rod Khleif would be my two recommendations. Rod has a very low priced entry level seminar with pretty much all the information you need to get started. 

Post: Adding value - addition, AC unit....

Stephen DispensaPosted
  • Real Estate Professional
  • Tampa, FL
  • Posts 172
  • Votes 238

Generally speaking in Florida you won't have any zoning issues if you're simply bringing existing parts of the building "under air" ie: converting a garage to living space or enclosing an open porch. You will have Florida Building and Energy Code standards to adhere to which will include getting a set of Energy Calculations, making sure existing cooling systems can handle the additional square footage or replacing/upgrading if necessary, and making sure the newly enclosed space is properly insulated based on current energy code standards. 

If you are looking to build an addition BEYOND the existing footprint of the property, (building an extension where you will be pouring new foundation and expanding the footprint of the property) things get more involved. Setbacks, Floor Area Ratio, impact fees, all start to come into effect. Now you'll need to hire an architect and a civil engineer to draw up a new site plan, which will need to get approval from the development board. Once you have an approved site plan, you can submit that along with building plans to the building department to get your permit, can start construction and work towards getting your C of O. 

You can generally figure out a basic idea of what is POSSIBLE by looking at an existing survey of the property and understanding the zoning regulations for that district. As an example, If the zoning requires a 25 foot setback in the back yard and the rear of the property is 30 feet from the property line and you want to build a 10 foot extension, you can have a pretty good idea that you won't be able to. But if you can tell you have the room the next step is to hire the professionals and get an architect and civil engineer involved.