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All Forum Posts by: Account Closed

Account Closed has started 16 posts and replied 62 times.

Post: What is a realistic cap rate/CoC for off market deals?

Account ClosedPosted
  • DFW
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 27
Quote from @Bruce Lynn:

@Account Closed DFW area is very tough. Honestly I don't see hardly any distressed multifamily. Even when I do come across it occasionally, the numbers probably don't hit your benchmark. It's nice to have a benchmark and nice to try to run numbers like that, but what I find is when you do that right now in today's market you probably won't end up buying anything. There are always people who can rehab cheaper than you and have lower initial ROI requirements.

Long term I think things will shake out.  We've had good absorption in the market, but we have something like 55,000 MF units coming on line this year in DFW.  While there have been stats come out the past couple of months that say rents are up, I don't really believe that when you see the newer properties offering 2-3 months free rent.   Last time I checked a couple of weeks ago we also had 750+ single family homes for rent in just 3 cities of McKinney, Frisco, and Plano.  That's too many.  What I see is there are many people from abroad who just want to park money here vs their home country due to inflation or some other reason who are willing to take minimal returns in exchange for principal safety.  Maybe local investors as well who want real estate safety vs stock market or commodity risk.   This seems to be even more exaggerated in small MF in my experience where by traditional metrics, they're just not there unless you find that needle in a haystack.


Even for distressed properties, you can't find a decent CoC? I would assume investors would negotiate for a better deal with distressed owners.

Post: What is a realistic cap rate/CoC for off market deals?

Account ClosedPosted
  • DFW
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 27
Quote from @Corby Goade:
Quote from @Account Closed:

I am looking to buy distressed multifamily deals all cash. My method of finding these deals are mailers and MLS. However, i do not know what a common cap rate or cash-on-cash return is for off market deals. I am looking into the Texas market and don't want to spend two plus years searching for a single deal because i have an unrealistic expectation for returns. 7%+ cap rate is what i'm using as a benchmark. I would love an investor's perspective on what they look for and how they structure their deals in terms financing and cash on cash returns.


 If you are working on 4 units and smaller, there are no cap rates- those only apply to commercial property. Lots of newbies want to negotiate deals based on caps and it gives you a false sense of value for a property. 

Are you looking at true commercial properties- 5 units and larger?


 Honestly, I’m looking for properties that are duplexes up to 5 units. I would even add single family homes. I know cap rates aren’t a good metric for MF, but I do need a benchmark to work with. 

Post: What is a realistic cap rate/CoC for off market deals?

Account ClosedPosted
  • DFW
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 27

I am looking to buy distressed multifamily deals all cash. My method of finding these deals are mailers and MLS. However, i do not know what a common cap rate or cash-on-cash return is for off market deals. I am looking into the Texas market and don't want to spend two plus years searching for a single deal because i have an unrealistic expectation for returns. 7%+ cap rate is what i'm using as a benchmark. I would love an investor's perspective on what they look for and how they structure their deals in terms financing and cash on cash returns.

Quote from @Bryan Hartlen:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Bryan Hartlen:

you can always negotiate and see if they’re willing to discount. 

In my many years of experience, if a GC would even consider negotiating, that would be a huge RED FLAG. We all have our margins, our exclusive costs and our profit/overhead. People think we just add in an extra few thousand for negotiating purposes? No.....that's not how it works. I guess only other GCs understand how this pricing thing works....?
In our experience, we've almost always had success negotiating. And I'm pretty sure I understand how their pricing works. We understand that GC's need to make their margins and we want them to be around for our next properties. We're always looking for a long-term relationship. 

 I’m assuming you can negotiate prices if you have experience with rehab costs. Would it be best to leave the negotiations out until you have more experience? 

Quote from @Matthew Paul:

@Account Closed Contractors are businesses . They charge what the market will bear . If you get 3 estimates for work you will get 3 different prices .  Prices are also area specific , if you live in an area with a high cost of living , you will pay more . 

There are no magic discounts for "flippers" or "investors" . Especially if you are only doing 1 house .To a contractor its just another job . 

Contractors dont over price , you and the contractor agree on the price for the scope of work , if you dont like the price you find someone else . 

Some contractors are just more expensive than others .

Definitely understandable. I just hope they don’t purposely over price, but I believe getting multiple bids plus references would help a lot. Appreciate the reply. 

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Account Closed:

I am trying to learn how to properly estimate rehab costs and negotiate with contractors. I’ve heard a lot about contractors taking advantage and overpricing. Any advice would help. 

 @Matthew Paul had a great answer. You get to choose your Contractor so you get to choose the price you feel is fair. Generally speaking, the better quality businesses will charge more because they have to...their cost of doing business is higher because they have all of the proper licenses, insurances, bonds, etc.

Never ever ever take the lowest price...that guy is priced low for a really good reason. I recommend getting 5 bids and picking from the top three.

As far as you, personally., estimating rehab costs....forget it for now. It will take you years to get good at it. Years.

Now there are a few things you can do as a customer to be smart....1) make sure that the proposal and SOW are very detailed and nothing is left out. Every little thing that is being done during the project should be right there in writing. Everything. 2) Make sure you have a signed contract that is legal and thorough. 3) keep the progress payments relatively equal to the work being done....example - don't pay for tile when you're still doing framing.

Go get some bids and then come back and talk to us again...


 This makes sense. I appreciate the breakdown and advice! 

Quote from @Bryan Hartlen:

@Account Closed get multiple line item quotes and then ask lots of questions. Ask if the GC has any employees (or dedicated crews). Ask what tasks they handle and what tasks he farms out to other contractors. Compare the lines item pricing across your quotes. If on GC seems significantly higher (or lower) than the others ask why. It may be his pricing or it may be a difference in scope understanding. Whichever GC you decide you want to use, you can always negotiate and see if they’re willing to discount. 

Thank you for the advice! 
Quote from @Allan Smith:

Best thing you can do really is to get quotes from people. Are you talking about subbing it out to all the different trades yourself? That's a little bit Advanced but that's how I started as well. It doesn't take long to get a feel for what the pricing is on stuff. Like putting in flooring is probably 1.50 to $2 a square foot for labor, and you can start to learn all these rules of thumb for all the trades.


 I was planning to use a GC and get multiple bids. Then, hopefully I can get some good recommendations for subs. More of a trial and error approach. However, I wanted to know if there were any ways to figure out if contractors are overpricing you. Or should I take the mid range price?

I am trying to learn how to properly estimate rehab costs and negotiate with contractors. I’ve heard a lot about contractors taking advantage and overpricing. Any advice would help. 

Post: What is an overhead and service fee for work performed?

Account ClosedPosted
  • DFW
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 27

Hello everyone,

I have reviewed a CAR property management contract with a company and they have 5% written in the line that states “ an overhead and service fee added to the cost of all work performed by, or at the direction of,  property manager”. They have a regular fee of $100 for services outlined in the agreement. What is this extra fee for?