All Forum Posts by: Shannon Gordan

I live in a planned community (suburb of D.C.) that has about 6000 homes (condos, townhomes, and SFHs). It is a mid/upper middle class area. The community is about 30 years old and has just voted in favor of building THs that have elevators and will be exclusively a retirement community (for ages 55+). Right now there is no housing available for the aging population of our community within our community (THs and SFHs have stairs and no elevators, the condos are small single-level starter homes). There will possibly be strong demand for these new-build retirement THs, and only a tiny supply (there will only be about 12 of them built), therefore possibly an investment opportunity if I can get in early. It occurred to me to buy one of the retirement THs as an investment property, rent it to retirees, and in the meantime let the imbalance of supply and demand force appreciation upwards, then 1031 the equity into something else later. I see the ultimate goal as being equity (rather than cashflow -- I don't mind breaking even every month, but I don't buy if I'll be operating in the red). I am familiar with investing in SFHs in A-class areas, however I'm unfamiliar with retirement community and speculation investing. I would appreciate advice on how to evaluate this opportunity. TIA!

@David Faulkner, thank you for responding to my post. I appreciate your support of our current real estate investing. As a newbie, it builds my confidence to keep going with REI. So thank you.

A few things that you mentioned in your post that I hadn't addressed in my original post are rent increases, and buying distressed properties. We regularly make increases in rents, but those increases are then eaten up by increasing property taxes so we haven't been able increase our cash flow much. And each property we purchase has to be a distress sale purchased well below market value or else we won't even come close to breaking even when we place a tenant in the property (2 of our 3 properties were short sales purchases). I have found it very challenging to find the right house, in the right neighborhood, and get the bank to sell it to me at the right price. Although I do enjoy the challenge and I know the long-term profits are there, the solid cash flow is still elusive.

I am very pleased with the less-is-more strategy we've been executing for the past few years. It's comfortable and it's easy (outside of getting the property purchased). But our goal is to retire early and live off of cash flow from our real estate holdings....but that cash flow hasn't happened for us with our current REI strategy.

You have definitely made me rethink buying C/D properties though. Perhaps since I'm already comfortable in A area investments, I should look to use the equity to put $100k  down on A houses rather than $100k down on 5 C/D houses. I'd just have to find an area where the cash flow from 1 A house is equal to or greater than the cash flow from 5 C/D houses. I just haven't heard people talk about great cash flow from A properties so I just assumed I had to go with C/D's. The other option I've considered in the past is to work on paying off the mortgages we currently have. Thoughts on these strategies? 

@Adam Bearup thank you for asking this question. I've been debating the same question too, and I appreciate everyone's informative responses and perspectives.

We are a military family and with transfers every few years, we currently don't have ability to put down roots to build a local portfolio. However, we do buy a primary residence each new duty station in "A" areas, then rent them out when we transfer. We own 3 properties in 3 different states, and have been landlords for 7 years.

Some of the benefits of higher-end rental properties that we have experienced are: 

1) Rents have always been paid on time if not a week early. It follows that we have not had to experience the headache of fighting our tenants for rent, and/or go through the eviction process....yet. 

2) We don't have property managers. It was more of a burden to have property managers to manage than it was to communicate directly with the tenants (and the tenants prefer direct communication as well). Like I said in #1, rents always come in (negating one major reason for having a property manager), so the only other issue a tenant needs my attention for is when they need a repair done. I get calls maybe 2 times per year per property.

3) The tenants take pride in their residence and take awesome care of the property. Being new at this, I don't know what dollar amount to place on this attribute. Hundreds, thousands maybe? Maybe a dollar amount should also be assigned to the amount of stress and worry I don't have to contend with?

4) Vacancy rate has been low. My first tenant move-out is happening for the first time in 7 years. I'll try managing the move-out and replacement tenant move-in myself, but if it goes poorly I'll look into hiring out this process to a management company in the future.

5) Tenants will let me know about every little problem there is in the house, which sounds annoying but I really appreciate that fact. For one, they care enough about their home to notice if something is wrong. And two, I can get repairs done before the damage snowballs and becomes even more costly.

In my experience with higher-end rentals, the one major disadvantage is the cash flow (which several others have mentioned in previous posts on this thread). While the cash flow has been meager, the appreciation we've seen in our properties has been phenomenal.

Prior to discovering BP a year ago, we had no game plan for what we were actually doing with our real estate or where we wanted it to take us. We are now very interested in cash flowing properties that will allow us financial freedom, which consequently is the opposite of what we have been doing with our real estate investing thus far. So shout out to BP for giving an accidental/aimless landlord a roadmap!

After reading the previous posts, it is clear to me that we if we want to achieve financial freedom via cash flow, then we will need to start buying cash flowing properties in "C"-ish areas.  I'm sure will have to hire a property manager to handle tenant issues that we've been dodging thus far. I really love the ease of having higher-end rentals, but their cash flows won't help us achieve our goal as quickly as lower-end properties will. 

From here, I think we will use the equity we've gained from the higher-end properties to finance the lower-end properties. In the end, it looks like we might dabble on both sides of the "A"/"B" vs. "C"/"D" investment property debate fence.

I hope my long-winded post has provided you some deeper insight into the higher-end rental side of things and helps you make a better REI decision that fits your unique situation. I would also like to echo what several other people have said: decide what your end game is, from there you will be able to create a roadmap of how to get there and it should be clear what decisions you need to make now in order to achieve your end game. Knowing concretely what my end game is now has helped me see clearly that I need to move away from higher-end rentals and into lower-end ones if I want financial freedom in the near future. Now that I have a roadmap and direction, hopefully success will follow! I wish I had more to offer in the way of numbers, ratios, and general experience, but I'm still a novice and learning. One more thing I can offer you though is that one of our properties is in Denver (Highlands Ranch) and I'd be happy to discuss the specific numbers associated with that property if you are interested. Just PM me. Good luck!

@Dan Wallace Thank for your response. It's clear I need to work on my lingo. The "banks" aren't actually banks they are lending and mortgage servicers. "Bank A/Lending & Mortgage Servicer A" ceases to exist. I'm not sure specifically how that came to pass but their physical presence when they did exist wasn't in CO. I shouldn't be so quick to assign generic terms as it causes confusion. I'll do better next time. @Bill S. Thank you for your link. I think you're right about getting legal advice. Do you have any recommendations for a real estate attorney or any tips for finding a good one?

A little more background: Bank A foreclosed on the property then went bankrupt a few weeks later. Bank B bought Bank A's assets. Bank B hired Company C to list and sell their bank-owned homes. The property is not listed on Company C's website, but the property is in Company C's private system (I called Company C). The title to the house is in Bank A's name. Bank B is paying the taxes. I don't know who owns the note as every time I call Bank B's Real Estate Owned Dept I get a busy signal. Dan Wallace if I bought the HOA rights to the lien, and the lien was a super lien, would I be able to file the lien as a super lien or is filing a super lien something only an HOA can do? Thanks a million guys.

Newbie here looking for some direction... I've found a foreclosed & vacant house in the Denver area that has a large outstanding HOA balance (most likely over 6 months of outstanding dues). The HOA hasn't filed a lien yet, but if they do would I be able to buy the lien privately or must the lien go to a sheriff's auction by law? The bank doesn't seem to know that it owns this property or else it would have sold the property after they foreclosed 6+ months ago. I'm sure I will have follow on questions to your answers so thank you in advance for your time and responses.

Thank you all for your responses. I look forward meeting you in the relatively near future. Thanks!

Hi everyone, my name is Shannon. I'm former Navy and now am an at-home mom of a 3y/o and 6-month-old. I'm excited to be a member of the BP community and to have access to the wealth of information and support that BP provides. My husband is currently in the Navy but separates next year at which point we will put down roots in the Denver area. We own two rental properties in two different cities but once we settle in Denver it's my aspiration to become active in the local real estate investment arena but keep "momming" as my primary job. Until then, I'll be learning and asking lots of questions. Thank you all in advance for your support and I look forward to the day when I'm seasoned enough to pay it forward to the newbies!

Hi everyone, my name is Shannon. I'm former Navy and now am an at-home mom of a 3y/o and 6-month-old. I'm excited to be a member of the BP community and to have access to the wealth of information and support that BP provides. My husband is currently in the Navy but separates next year at which point we will put down roots in the Denver area. We own two rental properties in two different cities but once we settle in Denver it's my aspiration to become active in the local real estate investment arena but keep "momming" as my primary job. Until then, I'll be learning and asking lots of questions. Thank you all in advance for your support and I look forward to the day when I'm seasoned enough to pay it forward to the newbies!