All Forum Posts by: Amit M.

@Account Closed all of a suddenly getting all the credit (and all he can do is further sidetrack us...:) :)

But seriously, here a few succinct comments:

- agree with Bob, CPA or not, plenty of smart or well educated people make investing mistakes. I've personally know several that royally screwed the pooch, especially 08-09.

- Minh, you're right about old timers that never sell. But you/I are not anywhere near golden years! We don't have that luxury to have no debt properties and below rent tenants for long...even me in crazy San Francisco-land.

- final advise to @Toby Johnston is simple: think hard before getting out of SJ, for it may not be easy to get back in. In expensive markets, acquiring the first two properties is the hardest. Once you have two investments under your belt, you have a bit more breathing room and flexibility. Fortunately, I'm experiencing that now, but a few years back I was much more limited.

Ok @J. Martin ...let's check out your link :)

SF is a small, tight nit RE market. I personally have seen better deals get made when agents know and trust each other. I think you face some risk doing it alone, as you may not be taken as seriously. Plus you should list on MLS for max exposure (even if you do it with a discount web site, etc.)

I know it's counter intuitive, and I'm an investor too looking for the best deal. But I have had great success using my agent, where they have given me more value than the commission. I know others disagree, but that's been my personal experience on several transactions.

I just think the OP is underestimating how hard it is to get a foothold in the Bay Area investment market. He's already in now! Since he lived in that home, I'm assuming it's not in ghetto-land, meaning it should have solid appreciation potential. If he brought it a few years back and has a low fixed interest rate, it's probably cash flowing now and not loosing money. If all that is true I think it's a mistake to sell it to buy something in fly over states for more income, plus all the risk and uncertainty of managing property from afar. IMO it's a non brainer- you keep quality property, in a market/area that you know, prop 13 tax advantage, low fixed rate, high probability of more appreciation in the immediate 2 years. Then refi or HELOC to pull cash, and buy something else.

yeah, I'm reading your list and thinking...sounds like San Francisco!

The key, IMO, is to be sure the market is still very active and hot. Most SF props I see are 10-20% below expected. Some are way less. I know, i've been in a bidding war like that, and it gets frustrating when the over bid is so high. (Interestingly, I've heard through the grapevine that the winning bidder is getting cold feet, so prop may come back on market...that can happen too.)

Also, a lot of this is regional/cultural. I know nothing about your area, so just make sure you're not doing something way off the norm. Here, for better or worse, it is the norm.

pretty ambitious...what're u tryin' to do? Become the next rich dad, poor dad?!?!

@Steve B. You seem hung up on the perils of buying non cash flowing properties. Where did I ever say that? All I said was that cashflow is NOT the most important aspect of investing. And I'd still like to hear of examples of small/medium size investors that have made millions in cash flow (and not at age 80 btw.) For I know a lot of Bay Area investors that have made millions in equity with a few well chosen properties.

The other aspect of appreciation, is that it generally comes with higher cash flow too. What may be a poor or modest cash flow bldg now, generally turn into a strong cash flow later.

To succeed you have to know your micro markets incredibly well. I'm more willing to discuss investing concepts than specific market plays. There are enough investors stumbling around in my markets already.

to whomever. Yeah look, I'm not interested in a pissing match on cash flow vs appreciation. My only point was, how many small/mid size RE investors do you know who have made a few million dollars from cash flow? I know many small/mid size investors in the Bay Area who have a few million dollars in equity. And they still have their equity, just a few years after the "Great Recession." Plus they have cash flow too, although maybe not as much as other places optimized for cash flow.

^ bro, and $230k for a vacant lot in SF is considered a BARGAIN- probably the cheapest thing on MLS in SF :) I bet you that lot is not even entitled/buildable. A buildable lot in SF is closer to $500,000.

So yeah, not for the faint of heart.

how long ago did you by that home? And how long have you been renting it out?

Are you saying it won't cashflow at all for you?? Because if it does, even if it's a small positive, I'd keep it. You probably have equity in it, so why not pull cash out/refi and buy something else with that? If it's in an even halfway decent area in SJ I would not under estimate the appreciation value, plus you have a lower property tax base too, which is no small potatoes in CA.

My philosophy is always keep decent property in the Bay Area! Of course I manage cash flow, but I don't optimize for it. In my mind it's short term vs. long term thinking. You'll never get rich from cashflow; real wealth almost always comes from equity appreciation.

that get together was a kick!

So how was the after hours at the dogpatch saloon? Did many people come by? I had to get back home...