All Forum Posts by: Sam Bagwell

@Dan Mahoney  Thanks for the shout-out!  On the attorney side of things we've come across cases where Fulton County has sold a lien to Vesta (or Investa) while a tax appeal was pending (we were not handling the tax appeal).  While the appeal was still pending, Vesta then conducted the tax sale, selling to Investa (or Vesta).  So now there is a tax deed sale, while the tax appeal is pending.  By the time the tax appeal has worked its way through the system, it is determined that Fulton County (the taxing authority) actually owes money back to the tax debtor, meaning that the initial lien should never have been filed, and is wrongful.  At that point, however, Vesta, or Investa might be considered a bona fide purchaser after the fact of what they believed was a valid lien.  During the quiet title action on the part of the subsequent purchaser, both sides bled way too much in attorneys fees though they did eventually resolve the matter.  Basically, the County should never have sold a lien which was subject to appeal, the tax debtor should not have had to defend their interest in the property, since they were in the right on the underlying tax issue, and Vesta shouldn't have had to incur legal costs to fight for a lien which was issued based on an invalid tax deficiency.  By outsourcing it's status as tax authority to Vesta, Fulton County endangers the purchasers of the deeds, as well as its tax-paying property owners by not accounting for potential challenges to the underlying property taxes.  Additionally, Fulton has many underlying municipalities; Atlanta, Fairburn, Peachtree City, etc...  We've come across cases in which there are competing tax liens (not deeds) between the County and a City, where the timeline of when the lien was filed, and when it was transferred to Vesta (or Investa) becomes crucial.  The lagtime between these huge bureaucracies endangers the priority of many of the tax deeds they sell.

That being said, we have many clients who have had successful transactions in Fulton, but we don't recommend it as a sandbox for newbies to learn the ropes.  If an investor has picked a solid enough deal, and has the funds to have a bit of a fight and incur some attorneys' fees, there can still be opportunities, if they know what you're doing.

@Michael J Shabazz  The short answer is no.  The person handling the foreclosure of right to redeem (barment) as well as the quiet title action, would simply serve any heirs that can be located, and serve the "unfindable" ones via publication.

The problem you're up against, though, is Investa Services.  I've warned people against Fulton County tax sales for years now.  1.  They're arguably illegal, as they typically go through Investa Services, Investa Holdings, Vesta Services, or Vesta Holdings, rather than the Tax Commissioner.  2.  The deed hasn't been sold, so you're a little premature on your concerns.  3.  If there is a dispute over the amount of the tax lien, and therefore the entire tax sale, then having an intermediary like Investa Services causes nothing but headache.  We've actually seen investa sell off liens that were later determined to be invalid, as the taxes were under appeal at the time Investa bought the lien, and everyone wound up paying way too much in legal fees to sort that one out.  4.  Fulton County does not communicate well with its cities.  We've seen Fulton County competing with Fairburn on its tax sales, which, by itself, isn't that complicated, except that it normally isn't Fulton County, but one of the "Vesta" companies.  In short, if you're a newbie, or have limited risk tolerance, stay clear of Fulton.  Investa (or its other alter-egos), is a complicating, and arguably illegal intermediary.

With regard to your strategy, if you can have the probate completed and buy your deed prior to a tax sale, and include a payoff of Investa as part of the closing, go for it.  Nothing wrong with that.  A short sale would be the same arrangement; you'd have to have an administrator or executor of the estate, and then negotiate reduced payoffs of Investa and any other lienholders prior to the sale.  That would be more complicated, but theoretically possible.  To justify that much work, though, it better be one hell of a deal!

We use several in and around those areas, depending on what you need, and I'd be happy to pass along their info. Are you wanting full title searches, just tax records, title insurance, or just limited searches for particular dates?

@Murray Cronia There's not much up here.  My office is downtown on Green St., if you ever want to grab coffee.  I hope you knock it out of the park as you get started with your license!

@Bianca Harrison I didn't even know there was a meetup that day.  What time is it?  Feel free to private message me, and we'll swap contact info.

@Luis Noronha That can also be really risky.  I've represented some banks (and investors) on both sides of this type of thing in Georgia.  If you "redeeem," after making this side-purchase from the tax debtor, then you step into their shoes; if there is a large mortgage on the property, or other liens, those would not be cut off, and would still be owed against the property.  Granted, you wouldn't have personal liability, but you wouldn't be able to sell the property without having those paid off.  You'd be risking your acquisition cost if it turns out that the property isn't worth enough, or if there are liens that you don't know about.  One benefit of tax liens/deed purchases is that they can be used to cut off almost any other lien.  If you back-door your way into the tax debtor's shoes, you lose that benefit.  That being said, a little title research for your "top 5" properties can protect against most of this.

$10 per winning bid?  $10 fee added to the amount owed, which is set off against the winning bid?  I would guess you could include as part of the acquisition cost of the real estate (so capital, not expense).  For $10, though, is it really worth even thinking about?  Expensing that amount would only save you what, $3-$4 at most on taxes?  Unless you're buying thousands of liens, I wouldn't put much, if any, further thought into that.

Get an actual attorney to do a title search and abstract for you.  It shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred bucks.  Many of the old liens may be retired or wiped out by the foreclosure of a superior lien.  Don't rely on "the association" to do the leg work for you.

I won't be able to make it to this one, but does the Mountain REIA have a website or facebook page, or is it just the meetup.com page?

I'm from Cumming as well!  Good luck finding a fully occupied 4-unit in our area; there just aren't that many small multifamily properties, especially in good repair and occupied.  Forsyth County is probably either going to be a massive multifamily property or a single family house.  If you go single family, with values as elevated as they are, you may be able to make a good equity play, but cash flow will be tight unless your down payment is huge.  If you're ever back in town on leave, let me know, and we'll talk shop a little bit.