All Forum Posts by: Rick H.

I would never make the assumptions that several have made.

PROPERTY: Just because it “looks abandoned” doesn’t mean no one cares. I’ve had leads provided to me about vacant houses that turned out to be structures on commercially zoned land that were pending demolition. 
EQUITY: You’d better do research to confirm there are no mortgage or other liens. If property taxes are being paid, someone cares!
TITLE: Abstract and chain out title to determine status. If deeded to a trust, for example, the doc preparer may be an attorney who notarized his/her client and can offer backstory or status.

INTEREST(S): This is where you look for an entrance point by skip tracing record owner’s relatives as potential heirs or beneficiaries 

THREATS: List out all the bad things that put the property in jeopardy of loss

OPPORTUNITIES: List out what ways and manners you can create value for your counterparty who may not want to sell but needs assistance that you can provide, at a profit.

It’s really the wrong question to ask because they’re unrelated!
One guy want to sell you yellow letters and the other is just talk. 

Houses owned by deceased owners do no not have signs on them saying so. However there are enough clues and cues that may suggest a problem bigger than financial hardship. 

Knowing your farm neighborhoods is key. Most of us do one deal at a time so you’re better off focusing than taking a shotgun approach. Your list may comprise of properties with multiple issues occurring at the same time: defaulted property taxes, LOTS of equity (where you make your money), public records search indicates owner deceased (but no probate filed), reverse mortgage in default (may be good, may be bad), and so on.

If you can find recorded code enforcement notices, those are helpful clues. 

Remember, houses don’t care. Same with deceased owners on record title. People are the only ones who have pain points to target. 

It’s sounds more like you “intend” to work pre-probates and similar opportunities. It can be a lucrative field (I started in 1978 and have completed thousands, so I’m qualified…)

You really don’t need a licensed P.I. and will often regret using their services if you do. Most are pretty lazy and overvalue their services and are very difficult to manage and keep focused on mission. What you need are skiptracers. Initially, outsource them before getting staff members with a knack trained. Start by checking PI Magazine where you’ll have plenty to choose from.

Most of the subscription-based data providers advertise there, too. They will have annual inspections at your office to confirm you have proper data protection areas and policies in place and are not some wannabe.

Similarly for genealogists. An all-access account from Ancestry ($400/yr+) will go a long way and you will occasionally hit the jackpot when you discover “trees” created by others who’ve identified your target. I have a retired attorney friend who’s at a conference in SLC Utah now learning more. 

When I was more active on B.P. I posted research methods before the moderators got nasty about resources that I shared (so I stopped sharing them !).

I began investing in CA real estate (only) working foreclosures starting in 1978.

Lots to know and an incredible number of potential pitfalls. There are 58 counties in CA, some 3,043 total in U,S. Every state has very different laws for timelines, auctions, treatment of owners/tenants on residential vs commercial vs unimproved property.

Don’t expect to dance up to the courthouse steps with cashier’s checks and just buy the nice house with the brown trim. There are pro’s who show up everyday to buy what little inventory actually goes to sale and will pull some devilish tricks to throw you off course.

Frankly, I’m in favor of investing your time and money in the education part of the opportunities and stay away from trustee sales and tax auctions. Study pre-foreclosure laws and best practices. I believe publisher First Tuesday still has material on this topic.

There are multiple sources for timely foreclosure data. I’ve been at this so long that it was (20) years before internet-based data. I’m still a big fan of property radar. Think creating smaller lists with highly-targeted, multiple pain points and hone your skills connecting to distressed owners and more time LISTENING. That’s where the real money is. 

Oh, and beware the so-called “experts” who are really just promoters!

My observation (after many thousands of estate cases over 40+ years) is that once people start talking about money (“stuff”), it’s not about grief as much as it’s but about confusion and mixed emotions. 
This is NOT the place to get actionable estate planning and financial advice. Now that you’ll have a few bucks added to your life, you can afford good CPA and certified financial planner. Paying off a mortgage is a change of strategy that might be regretted if your pro advisor guides you to better investing. 
As to retiring . . . WHY? You want to sit around and drink beer (not Bud Light, of course!) and get fat? You’d be much better off learning how to modify your lifestyle and priorities to accommodate your preferences and do things that are meaningful. Also, you now have an opportunity to invest in yourself (education) and help others in your community. Look for people who represent models of how you could live a better life, not “how am I going to spend my inheritance?”

Quote from @John Slater:

Quote from @Chad U.:

Unless laws are different in Texas, no the state will not open probate. Only an heir or the estate would do so.  

The only recourse you may have is if there is a mortgage on the property. You could potentially contact the lender and purchase it from them. You would then need file for foreclosure.

Failing that the most likely scenario is it would go to tax sale.In California the state would file probate as a public administrator from the sheriffs office. 

Also the lender won’t talk to you, you have zero access to the lender. 

There is never any assurance that a probate is automatically opened by any party. This is why “orphan” houses occasionally go to tax auction. In CA, when I’ve completed more than 2,000 probate deals since starting (1978) it surprised me how many properties fall between the cracks, with (mostly) amateurs trying figure out how to monetize.
Educationally, I’ve made the most profit from studying title and becoming an expert. I consider probate primarily a subset of title.
It’s the rare person on these forums who will invest the time, money, footwork and patience that produce sufficient fruits of their labor.

I’m with Matt. Too little facts. Someone thinks they may have a case but doesn’t provide any useful info beyond the suspicion of wrongdoing. 
To be fair, I would not be surprised if shenanigans occurred. However, the place you go to is a qualified attorney, preferably in the county where the alleged act occurred.

When I see a faceless poster who is new to the forums trying to get free info or at least direction, the matters rarely go anywhere because of lack of commitment by the poster. Often, the poster has their own financial agenda, too.

Try your local Bar Association legal referral service. 

Not so fast…
As is often the case in BP, a poster with a state-specific matter gets uniformed responses from those in other states who are applying their limited knowledge. 

California is a tax deed state and does not sell the county tax assessment liens. Each of the (58) counties holds one or more auction each year for back taxes defaulted for five (5) plus years. This is no secret.

The tax sale list(s) can and are used as a hit list for some investors and “finders” who understand that acquiring property PRIOR to auction can be a great way to find super-bargains. However, there’s much to learn in order to perfect your title ownership if you don’t purchase at auction (I never do) and the record owner is unavailable, or deceased. 

Don’t think for one moment these “abandoned” properties are easy to acquire, either. You’d best start by getting a deep education on studying California real estate title research so that you know how to abstract the record ownership, deeds, liens and history since their acquisition (by purchase) or the prior owner(s), if current owner inherited or spousal distributions. 

Some of these properties, you will discover, are actually vested (held) in a trust. Occasionally, all parties are deceased or trustee fails to act.
You’ll see in my older posts (when I was more active on BP) how I organize these opportunities using the PETITO method:

Property, Equity, Title, Interests, Threats & Obstacles, and the Opportunity (is the juice worth the squeeze?).

This is my 45th year as a real estate investor and I have specialized in working inherited property with title and other issues for well over (30) of those years. I’m fortunate because well-over 99% of my transactions are from attorney referrals as I don’t have the patience anymore to deal with people unwilling to “go deep” and invest in their RE education. 99.9% on BP will not. And it’s that 0.1% that DO get serious who make the money.

It’s the old issue of control. . .

So far, you can only assume the heir is correct. I have completed thousands (!) of probate deal in my state (CA) since starting in 1978. Heirs are not Genealogists and even those rules apply when an intestate (no will) estate. 
Said heir could assign their interests to you (to protect you!) while you get them appointed as administrator or personal rep.

If you do not take that extra step, once appointed and in public records, people will come out of the woodwork with offers that screw up your plans.

Better be an abundance of equity to make this worthwhile to you, heir(s) and the attorney. 

REMEMBER: All probate laws are State specific. 

Let’s start with the basics: 

What the property’s value be if you already owned it? What would you do with it? What would someone else do with it? 
What would someone else pay you for it (estimate low / high)?

Since deceased people don’t transfer property, it will be necessary to either hope (?) to outbid others at a tax sale auction OR effect a different strategy to pass title.
Probate laws vary significantly by state. Did you post what state?
Buying heirs’ interest via assignment or similar method may be possible, if you’re skilled at locating people and persuading them to sell to you. 
There is also the distinct possibility that the decedent has unsecured debts or claims that offset or reduce the amount you would receive if probate were you choice. I’ve been in involved in over 2,000+ Calif probates since 1978 and know this to be possible from both sides! 

Personally, I think that there could be a lot of work involved in order to end up with an asset that produces no cash flow now. So, if the pieces don’t fit together easily you might look for someone who works these type opportunities in your state and trade something more useful to you now.