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All Forum Posts by: Gary Lucido

Gary Lucido has started 0 posts and replied 53 times.

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

@Billy Knox 

You said: $12K passively invested in the S&P (literally just buy the index and do nothing else) yields an 11% annual historical return.

Careful man, that is only with reinvested dividends...actual historical return is closer to 7% with more volatility than people think. Long turn average doesnt do you much good if you have to take the money out in a down cycle. Oh...and half the investors make less than the average :) Bringing this up because you are using the stock market as an example of how easy it is, and even your example contains innacuracies.

As to your larger point about self education...agreed. It is possible and laudable to take the knowlege into you own hands. And it might save you money.

Taking a step back from real estate, though, skilled middlepeople (brokers) have been sought after since literally the beginning of civilization in all avenues of trade. People have been complaining about their fees since then too :) Occasionally the ground shifts and a particular area of skill becomes obsolete but the skill set has proven its worth over centuries.


 Reinvested dividends is the correct way to look at it. That is part of your return and you have to account for it.

Since the beginning of time middle people have basically exploited inefficiencies in the market but eventually get eliminated or their role is drastically reduced: travel agents, stock brokers, floor traders, money changers, banks with tellers, cashiers, book stores, etc...

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Quote from @James Hamling:

On the buying side, that's a non-starter for such adjustment because of the prevailing system in place where a seller is expected to present that buyers broker payment and reducing such DOES absolutely result in agents "ghosting" that listing. Not supposed to but it does. So change has to start at listing side. 

What would you think to a listing agreement that stated a flat rate, say $1,750, which covers all items associated with building that listing. The initial CMA, property photos, videos, and creating the listing. Now keep in mind this is just creating the listing colterol, not the actual activities of such. And photo's videos can be a pretty penny themselves, for good pro ones that is. And maybe there would be tiers, a good - better - best kind of thing.

Next for the actual listing, a 1% selling brokers commission WITH a per hr consulting rate fee, just like attorneys do it, with a stated retainer amount as billing comes from that retainer/escrow. 

You do want a listing agent to have a "dog in the fight" and, a "more" property will denote "more" marketing/advertising activities, hence that 1% is reflective of the both. But this structure helps to keep it to a significant minimum vs prevailing standard today, and with the per hr billing rate known and structure for agent time, that defends on those activities. 

The only alternative to this, would arguably end up costing a lot more because it would mean breaking down every function into a billable and than tiered options on each and all of this add's a whole ton more administrative and accounting measures just to track and manage, thus adding more admin impact and there in, more cost. For example an advertising and marketing budget, to track every spend on that and not to mention having to educate every client on what is and is not appropriate because as it stands today, people are clueless what we spend on such. My organization burns thousands weekly on such and I am 100% certain our clients take it for granted. 

And than I'd have to point out every Listing Transaction actually has 4 sales made to get 1 closing. FIRST we have to sell a buyer on the desire of the property via the marketing colterol. We gotta get them interested enough to come out, but ideally come out with urgency, because that's how you drive multiples, and that's the goal in EVERY listing.     SECOND is the obvious sell, getting a buyer to make an offer, selling them on the property but with that THIRD selling the buyers agent on the purchase also. Yeah, how many overlook that one?! If person(s) love the home and want to make an offer it can get killed real fast by a buyers agent poo-poo'ing it, you ALSO gotta sell that buyers agent on it AND if you can sell that buyers agent on it they often sell there buyer son it also and all the more.    And FOURTH but MOST IMPORTANT is you gotta sell that appraiser on the value of it. Yeah, again, near to none talk about or focus on this but as someone of a bit of fame in getting "above market" sale prices, this is a major component of my "how". It's actually the bank who's buying it, facilitated by the desire of the "buyers", so this is the important sale, the appraiser. And it has to be done very intelligently because there is no direct selling allowed. It's all about correctly listing, having all the right details, knowing potential appraisal issues before they happen and solving them before they happen. 

This process can consist of a lot of agent interaction and hours outside of direct consulting with clients. I am not sure how one addresses this via a per hr billable. In my experience the sale after the sale is the heavy lift, where the hours really come into it, seeing things through inspection, re-negotiations, appraisal and closing process. The most hours I have ever lost on transactions is in this "time-suck" not on the actual listing side most see. It's the invisible majority of time and importance. 

With buyers having online access to all listings it's pretty much impossible for buyers' agents to ghost a listing. Today's buyers are driving the process, telling their realtors what they want to see. However, an unscrupulous agent could discourage their buyers from pursuing a low co-op property but then they risk losing credibility with their client.

We do offer sellers a service where they pay for our out of pocket costs plus our hourly fee. And we charge for all our time, including driving and phone calls. Most people don't take us up on this alternative because of the perceived risk to them should the sale become complicated but the ones that do almost always come out ahead.

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Quote from @James Hamling:

This whole thing highlights the entire stereotype for "Discount Brokerages". I don't understand why your answer to business operations is a race to the bottom. But more importantly, the disdain for everyone else who does not base there entire value proposition on "I'm the single CHEAPEST person you can find anywhere, I will do it for less, less, LESS". 

We don't bash your stripped down, bare bones, operational stance with blind rage. We could, oh how we could, but we don't. 

You have a niche, those happy to leap over dollars to snag those pennies, and that's a-ok, bravo for you, seriously. But it doesn't change the fact of it, doing less GET's LESS. And more COSTS MORE. 

Fact is it costs a lot to deliver a lot. Not every property and situation requires it, but yes MOST do, or I should say will be handsomely rewarded for such. 

Again, plenty of bad agents out there over charging and under delivery, I say good riddance to them. But that is not the standard for the industry. The standard is a small army of people backing up that 1 agent people see. That's how so much get's done so fast, with exceptional high degrees of accuracy and proficiency. Again, more costs more. 

Your self-listing people are EXACTLY the same as those direct selling. They are operating from there own basis alone, there is 0 difference between the two, 0. 

You gave no credible retort, which tells me you don't have one, just more rant how all agents other than Discount Agents like yourself, suck. I get it, because your entire value proposition is your cheapest, so you clearly think ONLY price matters, and have ignored what your doing, what your delivering, PROBLEM SOLVING. 

You make many assertions without evidence. What makes you think I've failed?

And what makes you think that we provide a stripped down service? We don't. We just take a lower commission. I just have never met an agent that I think is worth the hundreds of thousands that some make in our market. And we've worked with them all.

And where have I bashed other agents? I simply said they were overpaid. Many people are overpaid and other underpaid in the economy.

But I do agree that there are numerous bad agents out there. I estimate that 80% are worthless. But there is only a slight correlation between what an agent makes and how good they are.

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Quote from @James Hamling:

If self-selling a home is exactly equal to using an agent, why is the literally an entire industry in existence of buying from those self-sellers to than market sell via "standard" system of agents, FOR PROFIT. 

Bueller....... Bueller....... Bueller....... 

You are comparing apples and oranges - i.e. sellers who place their home on the MLS without a traditional agent and those that never put their homes on the market but do a private deal. Why do you think all these investors want homes that are NOT on the MLS? Because there is no valid price discovery for them. They are buying from naive sellers and getting a discount. However, if those sellers put their house in some kind of marketplace they would get a higher price and investors know that.

For instance, I have investors call me all the time wanting to buy properties that are not on the market. When I tell them that we don't sell properties without putting them on the market they suddenly lose interest. Riddle me that!

And just to clarify...putting a home on the market is not equivalent to using a realtor.

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Quote from @Keenan Fitzpatrick:

According to NAR and a bunch of other sources, real estate sells for more than the expense of a realtor when a realtor is used so why wouldn't you use one?

That is actually a myth. Show me the source and I'll point out the statistical flaw. For instance, in the past the NAR looked at average prices of homes sold with and without realtors and attributed the difference to the use of a realtor. Seriously? That's the only variable? How about people with less expensive homes are more likely to try to sell them themselves?

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Quote from @Rhonda McDaniel:

Now if you’re a buyer why not use a Realtor? Often it’s free to you- commission is most often paid by the seller. The Realtor on this end writes contracts, negotiates, and stays in contact with your lender and the title company to keep the deal on track and get you to closing.

As a realtor I've always found that that argument rings hollow. If the seller wasn't paying that fee they would accept a lower offer. And a buyer can get much of that commission back as a rebate if they work with the right realtor.

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Quote from @Billy Knox:

All great comments and discussion yall! Thanks for posting and keep it going. I can see both sides of the argument and don't disagree with the potential value add of a good agent! I guess the follow up question that a lot of people have hinted at is what should the appropriate pay structure be? Does any one have experience with alternate pay structures? How has that worked? 

Because I believe that realtors are usually overpaid we have a few different options. 1) We use a sliding scale on the list side. The percentage goes down as the price of the property goes up. A $1 MM property is not twice the work of a $500 K property. We don't discount the co-op unless the seller asks us to. 2) On the buy side we provide a rebate to our buyers - again on a sliding scale. 3) For either buyers or sellers we can work on an hourly basis with them saving the difference. And there is almost always a savings.

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48

I own a brokerage in Chicago and just moved to North Carolina. I also believe that realtors are overpaid for what they do.

When selling my home in Chicago I paid one of my agents to show my house, conduct open houses, and give me advice. I didn't want to weird out buyers and needed them to be comfortable reacting to my home. I also needed objectivity in the transaction, which a buyer and a seller just can't do.

I also used an agent in NC because the market is totally different here. We were not familiar with the areas or the builders or the practices, which were quite different than in Chicago.

The debate should not be about whether or not to use an agent. The debate should be about how much to pay the agent. 99% of people don't realize that they have tons of options with that but that's a whole other discussion.

Post: Why use a Real Estate Agent?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Quote from @Kevin Pickrell:

We have bought and sold several properties without agents. We just used attorneys who handled everything and it worked out great and saved a lot of money.   

However, In mid-2021, we saw a nice listing on realtor that was priced a little low and had been on there for a month. Unheard of in the Raleigh area. The listing said the buyers agent would get 2.5% so the buyers agent was going to get his part. No matter.... We called up three different agents asking to see it and none of them would show us the property because the gentleman that was selling it had used one of those flat fee to get it on MLS but was not using an agent. One young agent said "I am not doing double the work and only get half the pay". I am assuming that many agents simply would not show it to clients which is why we got it for about 15k less than it should have been. We ended looking up the owner via tax records and called the owner directly and made a deal. Worked out well for us but by saving the sellers agent fee he no doubt left money on the table.

We have always had very pleasant dealings without agents involved but if I was selling a property I would probably grudgingly use an agent so other agents would show the property.  

For new or inexperienced home buyers or sellers who need hand-holding through the process an agent might be beneficial.  


First and foremost those agents that refused to show you the property were idiots. I can elaborate if necessary. Second they were in violation of the Realtor Code of Ethics. We could debate the fine print but if you had first engaged them as your agent then they would have definitely been required under the code to show you the properties. It's also possible that they were in violation of the license law in NC but I'm not really familiar with the specifics of that law but it would not be unusual to specify that they can't blackball another agent's listing. And that seller did have an agent. It's just that those other agents didn't like their business practices.

Post: [MN] How to Get Hourly Realtor?

Gary LucidoPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 53
  • Votes 48
Originally posted by @Matt M.:

@Gary Lucido

I started to type out a whole long response, but this is really stupid. If you’d work hourly, have at it. And if you are an agent that has to split commission with your office, you’re then working for half that hourly. Enjoy! 

So you wouldn't work hourly regardless of the rate? $200/ hour? $500/ hour? $1000/ Hour