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All Forum Posts by: Richard Rohrbough

Richard Rohrbough has started 2 posts and replied 36 times.

Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:

Sell


Thanks, Joe. 

I'm considering it. Just curious if there were other options I hadn't considered or didn't know about.

Quote from @Upen Patel:
Quote from @Richard Rohrbough:

Hello BP friends. I need your help on what to do with my rental.

My monthly mortgage payment is greater than the rent I can get by $150 and the 2023 taxes are going up another $150/month.

I’m sure this is a common issue, so what are my options beyond the three I can think of below? Anything creative?

1. Ignore it/deal with it/subsidize it with other properties until someday rent catches up with my payment (meanwhile equity should have grown).

2. Make a large payment against the mortgage and ask the mortgage company to re-amortize the loan so that my monthly payment is less than what I can get for rent.

3. Sell the house (and make a better purchase on the next property).

Another way to look into things is potentially a loan recast. This depends on how long you have owned it and do you have enough to drop 20-30k into it. I have several investors that were like that ie "technically upside down on a loan, saved up a few grand, called the bank got a recast and now are cashflowing 300 - 500 a month. It all depends on the area, how long do you want to own it, are you going to do a 1031 tax exchange or something later.

Hello, Upen.

Yes, #2 is recasting. I just didn't call it by that in my post. Thanks for giving me the correct term.

Quote from @Eliott Elias:

Look at other ways to cash flow. Rent by the room, Airbnb, etc.


I can't STR because of local regs.

However, I did list my place on Roomies to see how "rent by the room" plays out.

Quote from @John Morgan:

3.


Thanks, John.

I'm considering #3 (selling). If I want cash-flow, then this isn't cutting it, so sell.

If I want long-term wealth-building, then the sentiment seems to be option #1 and/or #2.

Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Bill B.:

Check your amortization table. If you’re paying off more than $150/mo you’re making money. Tax free money at that, and more each month. Would it really change anything big picture if you had an extra $151/mo coming in? If so, then sell now! Otherwise imagine how many things could cost you more than $1,800/mo. 

What’s a 5% rent increase next renewal so to the numbers? And another 5% the next yer? Unless you plan to only own it for a year or two next years number mean almost nothing. Consider it a retirement account, does anyone expect their 401k to cashflow?

You're going to get lit up. But agreed.

$150/mo is very temporary. Weather it if it's a good house, if it's a bad location I'd sell though. I'd sell bad location even if it was cash flowing. 

Thanks, V.G Jason.

I think the house is good. It's a 1930 build in a downtown neighborhood that is regentrifying, so some good mixed with some bad in the neighborhood. 

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Richard Rohrbough

Did you buy the property like this?

If your mortgage is $150+ $150 taxes you still have insurance, vacancy, repairs and capex.

Sell.


Thanks, Chris.

I bought the property a year ago, completely rehabbed it and by the time I put it on the market last fall, everything had changed. So...I'm renting it out at a cash-flow loss each month.

PITI: $1721

Rent Income: $1625

Net: -$96/mo. (and it's about to get worse because of taxes) so not saving anything for CapEx.

Quote from @Rick Albert:

How much equity do you have in the property?

What are your long term goals?

Can you refinance?

I haven't heard of a lender willing to redo the payments unless it is a full on refinance. 

As mentioned before, you are actually in the hole more than the $150 once you factor in repairs, cap ex, and vacancy.

Is there a way to increase revenue for the property? For example coin laundry, passing on gardener fees to the tenants, etc.?

If you sell, what would you buy?

If you convert this to a STR or MTR, does that change anything?

I know this doesn't give you a straight answer, but I think there are more questions that need to be addressed before making a move. On the surface unless there is a long term play of adding value (such as adding another unit), selling may be the best option. You are not in the business of losing money. 


 Good questions, Rick. 

This was supposed to be a cash-flow property, so selling might be best. However, I appreciate other people's perspective in taking a longer-term look at this and considering broader factors than simply cash-flow. 

It's a 2/1, so I could add on (i.e., invest more) and make it a 3/2. Or I could take that same money and pay down the mortgage and have the payment recast or I could sell and invest in something that cash-flows better. I guess it's an opportunity cost question.

STR isn't possible due to current city regulations. There's already a STR next door, so my property can't be one as well. Like a STR, a MTR would take an investment to furnish my house. Just don't know enough about that space to know if the cash-flow would be improved.

Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:

Location? Fire insurance will also increase as is happening nationwide.

#1 no

#2 maybe not possible and the lender will charge something

You earn a W-2 and need some losses? Is the location a A+ and will hold value?

I'm going with 3


 Thanks, Caroline.

The lender said they'd charge a one-time $200 fee to recast the amortization, but I'd need to pay down something like $50k-$60k to bring the monthly payment into a better cash-flowing situation for me on this one property.

I don't earn a W2 anymore. Retired early last year and trying to cover my expenses via REI to avoid dipping into my retirement until years from now. Location is downtown San Antonio and it seems to be recovering some of the losses in value from last fall.

Quote from @Bill B.:

Your property taxes are increasing $1800? (From negative $150 to negative $300/mo). That’s not good. A bad year for me is a couple hundred more. 

What I meant but the “if $151/mo would make all the difference” comment is if you had it, you couldn’t count on it. A fridge, a furnace, an ac unit could go bad and it would all be gone. So if you NEED that $151, this isn’t the property for you, you can’t afford it. 

One of my best investments was negative $800/mo cashflow. But I was paying off $1,500/mo in principle with a low interest 15 year mortgage. I was making $8k while showing a taxable loss of $12k (providing an additional $3k) while it appreciated about 5%/yr (generating another $30k/yr). So I was feeding the property $10k/yr to make $40k in year 1, the worst year. Now it generates $30k in Cashflow but it’s almost all taxable.  But I was ready for that investment because I was about making money, not cashflow. 

Your numbers don’t sound so promising. The tax is a killer. Would you make a profit if you sold? How much would you have left after taxes? Is there anything better to buy? You know this deal, paying $20-30k to buy something else has to be for a known better deal. Are you using a PM? Are you sure you’re getting market rents? (If you’re not using a PM contact a couple, give them the address and so them how much they would charge, how long it would take to fill, and what they charge you. You might find your net is higher than doing it yourself.) try to find a local expert. Good luck. 


 Again, good perspective, so thanks for educating me on how to look at this situation.

I retired early last year at 57, but want cash flow to cover my living expenses so I can let my 401k/retirement nest-egg ride until I'm 65 or whenever I want to tap into it. So cash flow is more important to me than increasing my net worth. However, I'm not saying that perspective is the right one. I'm open to thinking differently if I should be.

Taxes are going up from 5122 to 8634 this year, an increase of nearly 69%! I'm fighting the increase, of course, but that likely means it only comes down a smidge from 8634. The monthly increase is $293, and I'm already short on cash flow by $96/month, so I'll be short $389/mo unless I can increase rent.

At current rent of $1625/mo., my annual revenue on this property is $19,500.

Total expenses with the new tax increase per month is $2014 or $24,170.

A cashflow loss of $4,670 for 2023. 

This leads me back to the question, do I take option 1, 2 or 3 or some other option/perspective I haven't considered? I do have another rental property that is doing well and can cover this gap. Maybe option #1 (subsidize it) is best and I need to turn my attention to finding better cash-flowing properties.

Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Richard Rohrbough:

Hello BP friends. I need your help on what to do with my rental.

My monthly mortgage payment is greater than the rent I can get by $150 and the 2023 taxes are going up another $150/month.

I’m sure this is a common issue, so what are my options beyond the three I can think of below? Anything creative?

1. Ignore it/deal with it/subsidize it with other properties until someday rent catches up with my payment (meanwhile equity should have grown).

2. Make a large payment against the mortgage and ask the mortgage company to re-amortize the loan so that my monthly payment is less than what I can get for rent.

3. Sell the house (and make a better purchase on the next property).

Don't fall into the trap thinking that property always appreciates. It doesn't. Sometimes it drops, and drops reallly hard. 

Look at cash flow, write-offs and depreciation (taxes).  It's better for you than you may think. But, know the numbers.

Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your response and perspective.


@Bill Brandt said something similar. Namely, that I need to think more broadly than just cash flow. When principle, write-offs and depreciation (taxes) are considered, I'm probably doing better than I think. I guess my accountant will have to help educate me here. Thanks!