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All Forum Posts by: Chris Heeren

Chris Heeren has started 29 posts and replied 173 times.

@Mike 

@Mike Dymski  So this all makes sense for keeping accurate books..... Maybe I'm just asking the question wrong? I would like to know how I can calculate my "Gross Annual Income".  When I was working as a Business Analyst it was $80,000/yr.  As a rental property owner, I honestly have no clue how much I make a year in those terms. I know how to calculate my New Worth, taxable income etc . . .  but fail when I have a question like "Annual Salary/Income". Just deciding to include or exclude principle pay-down swings my Income by six figures.

I receive the majority of my income through Buy & Hold Real Estate and am looking for a way to calculate how much I make a year, sounds simple right? I currently own 90+ rentals and buy 20+ properties a year using the BRRRR method, where I pay all cash, fix the property up, rent the property out, then refinance it to pull my initial cash out. I also end up refinancing several older properties a year as well, finally I do sell a property once in awhile but not very often. When questionnaire asks "How much do you make a year", I would like to come up with some type of way to calculate my yearly income that can be equivalent to a W2 yearly salary.

Income

-Obviously rental income will be used for income
-Should I include capital gains from selling an existing house you've owned awhile? If you sell 1 house a year, that shows consistency, would you use that as income? 
-Do you include flip income, properties you bought and sold within the same year?
-Do you use a refinance amount as income? (Start with a $30K mortgage, refinance and pull $20K cash out and now have a $50K mortgage?) 
-Do you count equity that you buy into the day you buy the property?  (Buy the property for $30K and it appraises at $50K. or be all into the property at $45K and now appraises at $70K)

Expenses
-Typical expenses are again obviously assumed (Management, Property Taxes, Insurance, Utilities, Interest, small repairs)
-Do you include principle pay down as an expense? Say your mortgage payment is $500, $300 is interest (an expense) $200 reduces your mortgage, is this really an expense? It's a cost you incur that year which physically reduces money you receive, but it goes towards building equity.
-Do you include larger expenses that only happen once every 10 years or more? (New Roofs, New Siding, New Windows, Appliances, Flooring)
-Do you include loan/refinance costs

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Here is the scenario that trips me up: Say I buy a house for $30K, and then I put $15K into rehabbing it. (Some long term items like Siding, Windows, Roof, some short term repairs like broken door, fix leaky pipes, patch holes in the wall). Then I refinance the property with a $50K mortgage and receive all my initial capital back out PLUS an extra $5K. The house appraises at $70K. I then rent the property out and collect $5K in rents while having $4K in typical expenses, several months after it's rented out I replace the furnace for $2,000. How much did I earn/lose this year?

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Did I just make $25K from equity? Did I make $5K from the cash received at the refinance, did I not make anything and actually have a $15K loss due to all the rehab amounts I paid for?  Did I break even because I don't count equity in my yearly salary, I spent $45K on a house but received it all back in a refinance, if I don't count refinances as income I don't even include the $5K I received? Or do I simply make $1K because I don't include acquisition costs, and only look at rents? Do lose $1,000 this year because I don't include equity/refi, but do include major repairs like the furnace?

I'm very curious to see what others come up with to determine how much this house made/lost in a year to ultimately calculate a yearly income amount across all properties that I own.

Post: "For what you pay in rent you could own the house"

Chris HeerenPosted
  • Investor
  • Janesville, WI
  • Posts 180
  • Votes 155

I can buy and rehab houses for under $50K all in and then rent them out for $1,000/mo . . . .  clearly it is cheaper to own that to rent in the C Class areas that I am in, yet we still have a huge rental demand where I am. Why in the world would I want to rent properties in areas where it is actually more expensive to own than to rent?

Post: The $30k rental club.......

Chris HeerenPosted
  • Investor
  • Janesville, WI
  • Posts 180
  • Votes 155

@Willie Page

I would imagine the only person that would be able to answer that question is you. How ambitious are you?

Post: BRRRR - Why use own cash for house and rehab v.s. 20% financing

Chris HeerenPosted
  • Investor
  • Janesville, WI
  • Posts 180
  • Votes 155

Careful with where you get your information, those $60K-$80K houses will rent out for $900 per month. Still a decent return but not if you are counting on $1,200/mo.

Post: Anyone doing rentals in Rockford, DeKalb IL or Beloit, WI

Chris HeerenPosted
  • Investor
  • Janesville, WI
  • Posts 180
  • Votes 155

No No and Yes!

Post: The $30k rental club.......

Chris HeerenPosted
  • Investor
  • Janesville, WI
  • Posts 180
  • Votes 155

I have about 50 of these types of properties in Southern WI. I can't justify buying anything else. I use the BRRRR method to get my initial funds back out. The key is what the properties rent for. The majority of mine are around $900/mo. If you are only able to get $600-$700/mo, I would be very careful. That is just not enough cashflow to support an entire property long term, especially on older houses. (It may look good on paper but not in real life) If you expect to cashflow on a $30K property and are only at 2% rent vs purchase price ration - watch out. It is most likely not a money maker and probably in a C- or D class area with very little appreciation on top of it.

Originally posted by @Jeff Stansberry:

@Chris Heeren Thanks for the reply and you are correct regarding that agent promoting those types of deals. In your portfolio of rentals do you have any MF? If so, how do they perform overall vs the SFR? Thanks

I'm finding long term my single family are producing better numbers than multi family. Keep in mind I'm paying about $40k for the $60k properties fully rehabbed. My mortgages are between $35k-$45k and rent out for $900. My multi Families are also around $40k-$50k and rent out for $600/unit. Overall turnover on the 2 bedroom units eat up the extra profits. It's easier to find a good deal on SFH than Duplexes at the moment.

FYI - The $60K houses in Beloit/Janesville do not rent out for $1,200 per month. I'm guessing you may have talked to an agent who is prevalent on here promoting those types of deals. I have about 75 rentals myself in this area and the typical 3 Bed 1 Bath house for $60K will rent out for around $900/mo.

Post: Pay off student loan right now... or buy first property?

Chris HeerenPosted
  • Investor
  • Janesville, WI
  • Posts 180
  • Votes 155

What is the interest rate of the student loan? What would be the cash on cash return of investing that $30K into a property (or several properties)? If you have a 2% interest rate and are able to buy a $40K property that rents out for $900/mo then it seems like a no brainer on what to do. If you are paying 15% interest and the properties by you are $300K and only rent out for $2000/mo then that also seems like a no brainer.  The numbers should be able to tell you what to do. Either way, I would make sure you take the time to educate yourself first.