All Forum Posts by: Randy Scott

No reason to take a risk on this.

1. No way to add value to this property. (In fact, you might have to remove value.  My neighbor had to remove a kitchen in Provo after he owned it 2 years.  It just takes one neighbor to complain to the city)

2. 1999 was in the middle of the golden age in Utah for ultra fast/cheap construction. 

3. There doesn't appear to be any setbacks or street parking.  It does not look like a neighborhood that will age gracefully. (In 20 years, is someone going to spend money to fix up a house on a lot with no yard?)

4. One water heater is not enough for 2 washer and dryers and 6 bed/3 bath.  You will probably get cold water complaints in the winter.  Its also extra work to divide up bills every month.

5.  Why go to bed every night worrying about zoning issues?  You are buying a problem that will always be a problem to sell or refi.

I would only buy it if you really wanted to use the shop yourself. and at 80% of the single family res price.  There are much better long term holds in Utah County.

Provo has a good future for a city with just over 110k pop.

1. 430 Million $ Hospital Expansion (2018)

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865630925/430M-Provo-hospital-upgrade-kicks-off-to-healthy-start.html?pg=all

2. New Federal Court house about to break ground. (70 million est)

http://www.utahbids.net/government-agencies/salt-lake/utah-division-of-facilities-constuction--management-dfcm-1104/6560342-new-provo-fourth-district-courthouse.html

3. New Provo Temple just opened DT Provo

http://fox13now.com/2016/01/04/reservations-for-provo-city-center-temple-open-house-available-now/

4. 65k-70k college students within 3 miles of DT Provo (BYU, UVU)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=36847972&nid=148&title=uvu-now-the-largest-public-university-in-state-new-enrollment-numbers-show

5. Provo airport slowly increasing flights

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2987562-155/provo-now-utahs-no-2-airport

6. Two separate 150 unit class A apartments under const. DT Provo

http://www.provo.org/home/showdocument?id=3919
http://provomayor.com/2016/01/19/16159/

7. 108 Million bond passed Nov 2015 to improve Provo schools

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/voters-approve-bond-to-rebuild-provo-schools/article_98645dd2-fbca-5b8c-9889-30ffaa8d9336.html

8. 51k sq ft new Provo Power building under Const.

http://www.provo.org/home/showdocument?id=5435

9. 2.5% unemployment rate for Utah County (Dec 15)

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/UTUTAH9URN

10. Utah County has a median resident age of 24 who love that Provo has Google Fiber.

http://www.city-data.com/county/Utah_County-UT.html

There's a lot more, but that's my top ten.

They also built one of the nicest, most financially successful Rec Centers in the country.

This should give you a general idea.

Provo has a good future for a city with just over 110k pop.

1.  430 Million $ Hospital Expansion (2018)

2.  New Federal Court house about to break ground.

3.  New Provo Temple just opened DT Provo

4.  65k-70k college students within 3 miles of DT Provo (BYU, UVU)

5. Provo airport slowly increasing flights

6. Two separate 150 unit class A apartments under const. DT Provo

7. 108 Million bond passed Nov 2015 to improve Provo schools

8. 51k sq ft new Provo Power building under Const. 

9.  2.5% unemployment rate for Utah County (Dec 15)

10.  Utah County has a median resident age of 24 who love that Provo has Google Fiber.

There's a lot more, but that's my top ten.

If anyone wants to do a meet up and see a real world rehab in Provo, I would be willing to show my most recent house and give a walk through. The only time I can do it is Friday Dec. 18th at 6pm. (tenants are moving in on Sat.)

House was built in 1893, 3 bed/1 bath, 1200 sq ft. Every inch of flooring replaced, and 98% repainted. 8 weeks, $8,500.

You can see all old pictures on Zillow, most new ones on KSl. If people can make it, we can drive 4 blocks to DT Provo and get a beverage. (I usually celebrate with at least one)

164 E 400 S

This is what I would do if I was 19 in Provo right now and wanted to start my RE empire on a shoestring.

1.  Find W2 employment. (ideally something in the RE industry(Construction/Mortgage/Title/Appraisal Assistant etc.)  You need about 3k a month household income to qualify for a decent property in Provo/Orem. (assuming you have no other debt)

2.  Establish your credit so you have at least 5-7k limit on a credit card(s) that you will ONLY use for the time you have your first plumbing/heating/roofing emergency. You want your scores to be high to get better pricing on mortgages.   (If you want to be a real landlord, you should get a beater pick up truck with at least 200 thousand miles on it. Always keep some dirty pvc pipe, old faucets, pieces of tile, and a rusty crow bar in the back for extra street cred.)

3. Work with a Lender to get approved for an FHA or 5% down loan. (I'm good with either. this loan will probably be refi'd n 5 years anyway.)

Now you're ready to buy a house.  Here is my opinion of what to buy.

1. Stick to Provo ( East of 15, North of 300 S) or Orem almost anywhere that is a SFR neighborhood. (Dont buy an SFR on a busy street or in a multi family area) You will have 20 people respond to a Craiglist ad in these cities as long as you don't try to rent it between Nov.-Feb.

2. SFR, SFR with Accessory unit. or multi family. I wouldn't buy a condo, townhouse, or twin home. The more value in the land (size of lot, location) the better.

3.  Start getting every listing/price change emailed to you every day. (I use C. Banker)  I have found the best deals can be found over the winter.

Your 1st deal will be a learning experience. (basic plumbing,electrical/flooring/painting etc)  You aren't going to make or lose a million dollars on your first deal, but you will learn a ton. Look for something in the 140-240k range.

Excellent post by William Hochstedler. I Have 16 units (9 properties) in the Provo area which I started purchasing in 2005. (All are on what I consider unique lots that are not currently highest and best use.; i.e. two on the Provo River, one zoned commercial, one on an acre lot ) What I always tell people is to invest in "Lot and Location" and not "Cabinets and Countertops" Drive around townhome/condo complexes that are 25-30 years old in Utah, and you will usually see properties that no long term investor would want any part of. A simple way to look at this in Utah is to analyze your typical recently built 160k TH in Utah County. The "land" is worth about 30k and the improvements are worth 130k. In a 160k 1000 sf SFR the lot is worth 90k, and the depreciated 1000 sq ft of improvements (usually old brick) is worth 70k. Now fast forward 20 years on those two properties. That Townhome is now going to have 20-30 year old cabinets and countertops. (structure value of 160k ) and the 30k land value will increase to 60k in value. The land on the brick SFR will increase to 190k, and the brick structure should have a value of 105k.

This puts the TownHome at a value of 220k and the brick SFR at $295.

There is a simple way to back check this. Look at current listings of 1000 sf townhomes built in the 80-90's vs a 1000 sf SFR built in the 50's or 60's. In 1988, when the realtor was driving around their Pontiac Fiero listening to GnR, they could have bought either property for around 70k. Now, in 2015, which was the better investment?

I would try to find an excellent deal on a 800-1500 sf structurally sfr sound house (or bigger duplex) with good lot/location. (quiet street, bigger lot, view, next park, etc)  Put 50% down and see if you like being a landlord.   Remember to always leave yourself plenty of cash.  If anything happens to your properties, (Eathquake, water damage, 2nd recession, sleeper cell compound, etc.) you are always better off holding some cash.  Good Luck