Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Colter DeVries

Colter DeVries has started 26 posts and replied 50 times.

Following with the caveat being a portfolio that may have included farm/ranch real estate.
Thank you for posting Phillip

I am regularly using Montanalandsource.com, though this is only for farm/ranch in Montana. I recently had Gore Bolton on my Ranch Investor Podcast to discuss his platform LandIntelligence for transitional/investment/commercial-dev real estate.
If you’re in that space, you can check out

Following.
I’d like to hear the responses as I am also in the dev phase of promoting a ranch real estate syndicate.
Looking forward to hearing your feedback Gerardo.

Ranches encompass vast expanses of land, and limiting them to a single use hardly taps into their full potential. Explore the capacity of land. Here are a few reasons why you need to diversify your operations:

1. Risk Mitigation: Spread risk across different income sources.
2. Stable Income: Ensure steady income throughout the year via multiple activities.
3. Market Reach: Access different markets and cater to diverse consumer preferences.
4. Resource Efficiency: Optimize resource use through complementary operations.
5. Adaptation: Enhance resilience against market shifts and conditions.

If you're a ranch owner, are you open to diversifying your property's potential?

Syndication has become a prevalent strategy in the market, with real estate increasingly embracing this approach. If ranches adopt this investment model, how successful do you think it would be? What syndication model do you think would be best suited for a ranch?

Land inherently appreciates over time, yet actively enhancing its value requires strategy. How do you maintain the value of your land, especially for ranches, amid fluctuating market conditions and challenges?

Quote from @Henry Clark:
Quote from @Colter DeVries:
Quote from @Henry Clark:

Anytime. The above items are the basics to define and market your product.  Even before doing the numbers.  

Would also consider if this is scalable.  Lot of work and potential learning curves for just a single project.  




Your questions are actually the qualitative factors I was seeking in feedback. As you mentioned, even before doing/knowing the numbers. Starting off with the right asset in the right location. If I were to treat you as an observation and then extrapolate that your views/positions represent a much larger population with the (generally) same values, how important is location and proximity to a Bozeman or city like it? Where would you rank location in regards to recreational opportunities and ROI? For example, I would have a higher annual yield in NE Montana but that's a 3.5hr drive from Billings. I could have better recreational opportunities in NC Wyoming but that is a 2 hour drive from Sheridan WY. What are you thoughts on how important location is in the holistic decision making process someone will go through with this?

 Location is the ultimate decision maker.  

After you have decided on your market, either millionaires or Bubba.

Then you break down the experiences to match the customer.  

Your location will not be enough unless it is a dude ranch experience.  Otherwise either the millionaire or Bubba you have to go off ranch.  Unless you grow out pheasants for hunting you don’t have enough land to maintain quality hunting.  Thus you need access to park land to hunt.  

My largest bucks were 10 pt 177 and a 28 pt 189.  Many others.  I only get one good buck every five years.  My point is you need a lot of land to keep your hunting quality up.  You have to have access to federal ground and permits for many people.  Back to location. Otherwise pheasant hunting with farm raised birds.

If you have 1,000 acres which is small in sagebrush country you could do an enduro course, atv, or rock climbing course for trucks, etc.  Rv park.  These are scalable models you can do around the country.

Your a fifth generation rancher.  You don’t know me.  Cattle are a non starter as an investment other than as background.   I would rather buy dry cows and feed out for 90 days to get white fat than do cow calf or feeders.  Steadier risk reward.  Always got a kick out of calves missing a frost bit ear or a tail going for 5 cents less per pound.  Having to give a LA200 shot for pinkeye to a bull in the middle of a field with no pens.  The largest we ever got was 33 momma cows and  130 yearlings summer grazed then moved to feedlot.  The reason I told you the above is to buy some credence to my statement cattle aren’t part of the financial equation.

Start at your customer base then build your business model.


I personally don’t like the concept of partners, syndications or incorporating.  But we have already grown as large as we want.  

Enjoy your topic because we do teak plantations in Belize.  And with the world climate change discussion have wondered why people don’t do Bamboo plantations as Green investments to offset carbon footprints for individuals. I don’t believe in climate change but glad to make money off it.  Both of the above I could see doing what you’re doing.  Just a different product. Enjoy following your thought process.  



 @Henry Clark Please check out my Ranch Investor Podcast!

You would love it. Everything you said above fits right in with the discussion.

Also, given your experience in livestock, I would like to hear more about teak plantations in Belize as we can segway from one to the other. That would make for a great episode if you'd be willing to share with my audience!

Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Scott Mac:
Quote from @Colter DeVries:
Quote from @Scott Mac:
Quote from @Colter DeVries:

..... seeks to democratize passive ranchland-investing...  ...tax-shelter... 

Also 80 investors--do you know 80 accredited investors who would invest in anything...It might be easier to find a 4 million dollar investor vs 80 people (hearding cats), or a couple of investors who could pony up (and will follow through on paying when the time comes.

What is the exit strategy for this?

 Still, what do you mean by "Democratizing Access" to the process?


 everyone from "syndication" that says "democratizing access" is basically saying I would give the risk to you and the profit to me.

First of all, if you can explain the waterfall offering. Lets go from there.


 You are 100% correct, speaking with a group of investors and of course they were loving life the past few years in their syndications but now are miserable because the distributions have stopped and many of the sponsors do not care because they collected their millions in fees upfront. So if it goes belly up they have little to no skin left in the game and are like - oh sorry. 

 I can certainly see where @Chris Seveney and @Carlos Ptriawan are coming from with vesting skin in the game and alignment of interest.
From what I understand of other online syndications of alternative assets, it's fee heavy and little alignment.
What I am hearing is that I should market the 2% hurt money, revenue-share annual management fee, and IRR hurdle rate with 80/20 carried interest better as that is a unique-differentiator from the other pay-for-play platforms.
Not that I am proud to promote this as I wouldn't want to be considered a "discount manager," but the fees are low, both real and relative, and especially low given the asset at hand; 5% placement, roughly 75bps annual (given the revenue share estimates) and then performance at waterfall.
I do not anticipate this being a long-term solution though; only entry for the first launch of beta. I would fully anticipate those fees increasing if demand for the product is proven.
What are your thoughts on this?

Quote from @Scott Mac:
Quote from @Colter DeVries:
Quote from @Scott Mac:
Quote from @Colter DeVries:

..... seeks to democratize passive ranchland-investing...  ...tax-shelter... 


 How do you "democratize" passive investing (???)




That is a long and deep answer that I could best summarize an answer with "technology."The cost of the back office is nolonger cost-prohibitive to syndicate ranches at a <$20,000,000 level due to white-label tech solutions.I have a philosophical/canvasing question though if you don't mind take a swing at it: is "democratizing" access to investing in ranches even a value/ideal that you think would have a larger audience?Is there demand for this from Accredited Investors to place $50,000 in a DPP as 1/80th of the Class A Units; do people want to invest in ranches passively??

 A Ranch can mean many things.

Income producing cattle ranch (agri-business), a bazilion acres in no oil dryland Texas for cheap with an Aeromoter on a well and an old shack, a hunting spread in the country, etc...

Desire, I don't know.

Ranch or highrise, it will probably depend on the RISK and the income potential, and what the money will be used for.

Is the income and deprecation coming from a business or real estate from a tax perspective, might be important.

Also 80 investors--do you know 80 accredited investors who would invest in anything...It might be easier to find a 4 million dollar investor vs 80 people (hearding cats), or a couple of investors who could pony up (and will follow through on paying when the time comes.

What is the exit strategy for this?

 Still, what do you mean by "Democratizing Access" to the process?

 Very useful input @Scott Mac on the difference between 80 LPs @ $50k and 4 at @ $1MM.

My bigger vision is to get to a place with back office overheads, internal cash flows, and technology that would allow passive ranch investing to be available for as low as $500/ea for retail, non accredited investors.

That is the democratization aspect and the vision/values vs execution dilemma I face when testing at $50,000 vs $1,000,000.

Due to the registration being much cheaper, I must go the route of accredited investors only, for now.

My subjective, populist, nationalist, rural Montana beliefs deep down in my bones that still emotionally and personally influence my decision-making-bias is that what we have in Montana is 1-special, 2-should be shared without being too commercialized and gentrified, and 3-is quickly being lost.

With ranches as we all know, and I fully accept, becoming only for the UHNW, part of my core-motivation and driving belief is that technology (online syndication) should present an opportunity in the marketplace to bring in more of the "Average American" to participate, appreciate, and benefit from this asset; not just for it's historical performance, but for its actual tangible benefits (the feels).

Pride in ownership, sense of place, vesting/shared interest in ecology, community, and food production.

First it must be an asset though, one that makes sense in someone's diversified portfolio. In this case, comparable to 10-year AAA bond.

Liquidity would be 10 years; historically the asset has a net Cash on Cash yield of 2% (at best) and appreciates 4-6% annualized. Exit strategy is likely consolidation; I would imagine the highest and best market after 10 years would be 1-5 LPs who would like to consolidate because they know the ranch personally at that point and are generally satisfied with the economic/financial performance.

While this may not be the ideal effect of "democratization," I do see that being the next best option to having 13,000 investors at $500/ea should tech solutions allow for it.

Quote from @Henry Clark:
Quote from @Colter DeVries:
Quote from @Scott Mac:
Quote from @Colter DeVries:

..... seeks to democratize passive ranchland-investing...  ...tax-shelter... 


 How do you "democratize" passive investing (???)




That is a long and deep answer that I could best summarize an answer with "technology."The cost of the back office is nolonger cost-prohibitive to syndicate ranches at a <$20,000,000 level due to white-label tech solutions.I have a philosophical/canvasing question though if you don't mind take a swing at it: is "democratizing" access to investing in ranches even a value/ideal that you think would have a larger audience?Is there demand for this from Accredited Investors to place $50,000 in a DPP as 1/80th of the Class A Units; do people want to invest in ranches passively??

 It’s your money, you’re always right.  If it’s your dream you will make it a success.

I really don’t comprehend this business model.  View it as timeshare and think consumers are past that product.  Unless you’re tied to a world wide offering.  

To me you market upward to millionaires or downwards to “Bubba”. 

Millionaires you would have posted pictures by now.  Mountain View’s, STL airstrip 15 minutes away, Montana Sapphire custom Jewelry showing,  packaged beef offering for home, etc.

“Bubba” can buy a used $30,000 RV and park at the local state lake and have a great time.  $50,000 in Montana on a timeshare they will only go once or twice.  If that market you should show ATV trail pictures, bonfire family feud night, jet ski tournament, Dutch oven chili cook off, etc.

Whoever is handling your cattle have them switch to quality versus commodity.  Depending on size of operation tell them to switch to Jersey cows covered by a low weight Waygu bull or semen.  Jersey milk calves fed out grade at the same or higher prime percentage as Black Angus. Jersey cows have the highest buttermilk content of all beef.   Leave the valve in her.  In the fall it will be a huge butterball.  Basically Veal with Waygu thrown in.  Sell 1/4 and 1/2’s for home delivery to the rich people.  Rich people want to share or show their wealth. When they have people over within”Their” Steaks, gives them a chance to tell their montana story.

Point is to develop a hard marketing story and platform.  Otherwise just find a dude ranch model and replicate it as an Airbnb.  


 100% agree on your analysis of Bubba vs Millionaire.

I appreciate you taking an interest in Wagyu as well Henry; before I entered brokerage I had 200hd of black-baldies bred to Full Blood Wagyu bulls. I couldn't make that D2C work for a myriad of reasons on my family's ranch, but I still have immense appreciation for the Beef.

By the sounds of your analysis, my model would be for Bubba; a BYO recreational enterprise. I have no interest in going full fancy concierge service for the ultra wealthy, it's too expense in overheads from labor which is extremely difficult to find in rural MT, and then it just feels like a snobby hunting club which is antithetic to Montana values.

I couldn't/wouldn't do the time share model as well, because again, that comes with higher amenity expectations and people actually have rights to time as real property.

Thank you for the input!