All Forum Posts by: Olivier M Ouedraogo

@Olivier M Ouedraogo

Sort of depends...  A "top level" itemization of the bill, i.e. costs, I would expect.  The definition of "top level" would be dependent on the size of the job.  Even a bathroom remodel might just be labour and material.  Maybe broken out if there is is sub, such as your contractor having to hire a plumber and/or electrician.  If you wanted every piece of material and qty of material that would get kinda crazy unless you had a real reason.  I know some contractors don't like doing it since it more definitely shows their rates/time and gives an ability for the homeowner to nickel and dime.   So, if you upfront ask for just labor and you tell him/her that you will buy the material is one thing.  But, to ask for a quote for the job, then more detailed, then say what is your quote for the labor and you'll buy the material, is really just "dicking around."

A detailed scope of work was mentioned by another.  I'm not sure if you were asking about that.  Sure, usually the smaller / self employed contractors don't provide "super formal" like was mentioned in a prior post for a simple electrical outlet.  I find that if you want something like that, you end up paying for it as then you are hiring a "company" who is used to doing jobs for larger companies who need all that paperwork and specificity.

What is the scale or type of your job?  Have you asked for bids from more than one contractor and are having this problem?

Get rid of this guy yesterday. What a crock. He's at least lazy and might be crooked. Insist on a detailed breakdown of all work, everything he's going to do should be itemized and have a price attached to it. Like @Scott Mac said.

Have you signed a contract with him yet? Let me guess, he doesn't do contracts either?

You are leaving yourself WIDE OPEN for trouble. How will you know what he did?

And make sure he has a State Contr License, a Bond, liability insurance and Workers Comp for his employees/ Also get a release before you pay any sub-contractors.

I've been doing this for decades and this one smells like trouble.

If you don't know much about building, you are at the mercy of each contractors conception of what he thinks you mean.

People seem to do it this way, but some get hosed financially by it too.

And some have quality of workmanship issues with some unvetted contractors (see the link below).

Kind of what you are saying is Hey Scott, I want to have brain surgery done and I don't know how to do it.

I have no way to teach this to you, and learning it would probably take years.

At a minimum level, you might want to find a contractor whose work you like--as in see pics of their work.

Then ask them what something like that would cost you to have it done.

I know you want to compare bids, and MAYBE this way will KIND OF let you, without the skill to write up an apples to apples bid.

Were you can get into trouble could be change orders, or additional work not specified, such as the pic of Ms.Smiths bathroom did not include toilet replacement and you want a new ADA height Kholer unit...(so now it's over budget) and is it best to set it in a cement footing and he used silicone? Now it's less stable than you would like it for a rental of that class, etc... but you did not spec that, and he just did a normal SFH silicone footing. Is cement even allowed in your jurisdiction, or must he use silicone to meet code.

I don't know where you could learn this, this kind of stuff has been my passion my whole lifetime.

Some people just want the cheapest stuff and whatever quality of labor costs less. Others what workmanlike quality, and more specific items for specific reasons--marketability--lower cost of operations, etc..).

Again I don't know where you can learn this.

A Bathroom remodel gone sideways: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/899/topics/1065787-disaster-management-seeking-advice-ella-mai-of-ella-homes

Good Luck!

The more specific you know what you want, the more likely you can compare apples to apples.

Somewhere between:

Hey Jake how much to throw a new outlet in the upstairs bathroom (???)

AND

Receptacle Location in Bathroom: Bathroom shall have one new dedicated 20 amp receptacle outlet, be GFCI protected, and at least 3’ from the outside edge of the sink. The receptacle shall be located not lower than 30” and not higher than 48” above the finished floor. Receptacle shall not be located within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall, and shall be at least 12” from the outer edge of the bathtub or shower opening. Unless Code requires otherwise, in which case Code shall apply. Contractor to pull all needed permits. Contractor not to smoke indoors on jobsite. No loud music. Area to be left broom clean upon completion and all trash from worksite hauled away from jobsite.

Hi Oliver, No!  I would never use a contractor who will not give you a detailed scope pf work. That is what is required by every rehab lender. If you do not have detailed itemizes proposed scope of work than a unscrupulous contractor can inflate the pricing and claim that it was not within the scope of original agreement. One of the major reasons rehabs fail is disputes about the scope of work and extras with the owner. It always help to have a sketch plan created if you are moving walls. It makes the scope of work clearer. Good luck.

Hi Olivier- 

Would love to connect! I have seen this scenario before and can offer insight...I am near Norfolk too and know the area well

Usually you can only BRRRR by refinancing after the property is rehabbed and rented. Upfront, you will either need to put money down or get a private loan.

I don't know what part of VA you are in, but I just closed on a construction loan for rehab with Skyline National Bank in Salem, VA. Wonderful experience and decent rate and they rolled closing costs into the loan. Way less than 12% of the loan too.