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All Forum Posts by: Phil Olinger

Phil Olinger has started 1 posts and replied 8 times.

Post: Should we take his advice seriously

Phil OlingerPosted
  • Harrisburg, SD
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 8

Dave Ramsey is something that actually takes people a minute to warm up to. Crucify him all you want, but he has had a bit of success in building a real estate and self-help/financial empire. You may not like his ideas, but his actual genius is in the method. He does the simple things first, gets people to march forward in a stepwise fashion, and ultimately after living intentionally for a period of time, ardent followers completely retire all of their debts. I have done the program and roughly after 10 years, I am by no means a perfect example at all, but I have moved the needle majorly toward serious wealth. I don't own a bunch of doors, but I do have substantial investments, my kids will have college funds, and my house payment will be gone in a few short years. Actually I have an investment account that is growing and will surpass my total mortgage in a short while. If you completely eliminate all of your "Payments" how much extra money do you have left at the end of the month? Paying towards credit cards, moving money around works for some, and is a way to build wealth quickly. However, paying cash and especially now, the cash owner can lower rents dramatically to the whim of the market. Saying that you have built a net worth of millions in a few short years is cool. Also being a family where only one person has to work because you have no debt is also a reality too. It is just about what you want to accomplish in life. We are talking about a lake house because that is what we want.

If you can't tell I believe in his method, but as a side note here is just a screwed up example of how unclear people truly are about wealth. I know people personally who own a home outright and have enough side cash to make about a 50% down payment on an acreage. This would be done with the home sale funds and their added cash, and they can't get a loan. Why you may ask? It is because they paid off their home, own it outright, and have no debt. Their credit score is 0, and now most people go "Dave's system is so broken that these people can't get a loan." I would ask you, if someone came into a bank and said, I want a mortgage with 50% down immediately, here are my paychecks for my job from the last 5 years. The bank can't even do the loan without them getting a "credit score." Doesn't that seem a bit backward to you, if these people were to default, immediately, the loan to home value would actually be a huge moneymaker. It is truly a low-risk mortgage for the bank and this couple (they are real) should qualify for the lowest rate possible. That is not how our "credit" score system works. See to get a credit score, you don't have to have a large net worth, or be building wealth. You just have to interact with credit on a monthly basis. Don't you see any issue with the fact that these people will ultimately end up being worth millions (they are in their late 30s)? Our system treats these people worse than people who have had multiple credit failures. Every loan you take out means that you will have to continue dealing with that poor tenant or working at a rough job, at all times. Loans equal risk, and if you take the risk down to zero ultimately you end up with more options. That couple just did a major addition to their house and decided not to sell. Now they own a home that is completely paid for and has additional equity. Bankers had one shot to sell them a product, and this couple passed. When you own things outright, those things don't ever own you. Ultimately you don't have to like his method, and frankly, sometimes I find it maddening. However, I also do recognize when someone is right, and those big buildings that he has in Tennessee aren't the result of a pyramid scheme.

So I would invest boldly in the broader stock market in index funds at this moment and government treasuries indexes are good options too, all of this is really depending on your timeline. With that being said, I am comfortable with those market-based investments, and know what I am looking for. If you want to buy properties, use GOVT bond indexes, if you have a long horizon, use market US indexes, and stay away from international/China-related funds. China and the US are going to go to blows over this, and it won't be pretty.

However, when it comes to real estate, I would be more in the stashed cash and hold positions that most people are talking about. Banks that are limiting commercial lending see COVID for what it is. No amount of positive spin, BS, or wishful thinking will change the fact that cities and states aren't allowing more than 10-30 people into businesses at a time. Loaning people money for commercial properties where the margins of businesses in those commercial properties are already tight (i.e. restaurants, bars, department stores, and others) is largely ill-advised. This virus will likely speed up the death of most malls and cause shifts in spending patterns and changes in the economy. If we were to take a crystal ball it is easily seen how Amazon, eBay, and online retailers start to flourish. Also, staple companies will be strong, but there will be a large pullback in the "discretionary" spending of consumers. If you didn't lose a job with the downfall of those aforementioned commercial industries, you will ultimately be spending less money at bars and restaurants. Thus it is pretty easy to see the potential economic ripple effect that this may have on our country. 

Now for the real health care focus of the discussion. COVID is a virus that China didn't tell us about, China has kicked out US reporters, and has the WHO in their back pocket. The US saw a smallish outbreak in New York, that put a strain on their healthcare system and taxed their ability to perform routine clinic functions, routine surgeries, and other roles. Other states locked down their economies quicker, and thus the "flattening" of the curve occurred all over the US. When they talk about flattening, what they truly mean is did we not over-run hospitals' ability to take COVID patients. True flattening would mean complete suppression of this disease and that is not going to happen. No matter what your politics are, we need to look at places in the world and evaluate their responses. The media in this country collectively do a poor job of telling people the truth about numbers, staying on stories for more than 3 seconds, and reality. China is lying and most likely not testing everyone, they hoarded PPE, wanted to solve this without US help, and are ready for worse outbreaks in other populated areas of their country. Their data is garbage, any study, research, or result from them just consider it false. There is a culture of manipulation, lying and cheating in China that people in the US can't fathom. Who can we trust? Europe seems to be reliable. Spain and Italy are showing massive death tolls, and aren't hiding anything about their failures. Also, Sweeden took a completely different approach, they said, "People that are old and have health issues, STAY HOME, others go out and go on with your lives" (I am unsure of their social distancing policy, but I don't believe that they had one). They believe that they are weeks away from achieving, "Herd Immunity" by allowing the virus to run through their healthy population, they have had a lower death toll than New York and may not see what some people are calling the "Fall spike". Now in the fall, Sweeden may actually have a huge issue where the people who were first infected become severely ill after getting re-infected, or ultimately they will end up being proven right. We need to watch places we can trust, their responses, fatality rates, and follow the science closely. Finding a vaccine may take years, finding treatments may take years, and we need to see what people are seeing in the research and follow those models. If we find one treatment or vaccine that works and lowers overall death numbers the economy will roar back, if we are still sitting and waiting, by next November, it will be a tepid recovery. 

Currently knowing all of this we are currently at the bottom of what our newish normal is, people are going to go back to work and we will likely see a massive retail recession. I would stash cash, and wait for a few months because a larger blood bath is likely to occur. It just hasn't happened yet, and in the fall we will start to see the retail closures and thus the resulting falling of housing prices.  That is when I plan to try and buy. If I am wrong and the economy roars back, earlier, then we likely solved COVID. I am okay with being wrong.

Why is there such a concern with AI? Maybe I am in a minority, but I believe that this capability is greatly overstated. If you watch Back to The Future, we should have hover boards and flying cars, but that movie only had it right when the Cubs win a World Series. AI, as we know it, is just highly efficient processing of large sets of data. So can we make a computer win a video game, chess, jeopardy, recognize a face, and drive a car? yes. Can that same computer that wins the game or drive a car, then go and cook a meal, read a book, or Walk? seeing things and perceiving things and develop balance and shaking someone's hand is one heck of a  hard task. Our minds our wildly fascinating and we still don't understand them, so how can we make a computer that does that? I had a computer teacher say, this machine is only as smart as the operator running it, and I still think it applies. Do computers speed up our rate of progress, yes, but them replacing us? I highly doubt it. The prognostications of developers and AI people  are so tightly constrained by their beliefs that an algorithm will solve everything. You can't detect Russian hackers on FaceBook, so perceiving real vs fake, is really hard. Teaching a computer to spot a lie, how do you do that?  These algorithms will have to be as powerful as a line written a group of people in the 1700s, (all men are endowed by their creator the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) That line took 1000s of years of human history to come up with and humans had been organizing themselves since we were evolved. So in the time when the 80s and 90s gave us personal computers, early 2000s really exploded the internet, and now we have evolving media, it has been 40 years...... Sorry AI guy, I don't think you have written a code that will last 400 years or make humans useless. Here is a task AI guy, how do I contact a person at Facebook, Gmail, Google or YouTube?

I think the truth is that it is so hard to find a "good" investor agent. Agents like to fudge numbers like, vacancy, cap rates, Reserves, NOI, rental rates, capital expenditures, and management. So if you sit down with any agent and ask the following question, what is typical vacancy on a single family home in the market? you get quotes on current vacancy rates i.e 5%, well that may be for the total area looking at total units vs total rented. Well, it is a single family home, so if it vacant for 1 month, that is 1/12 (8%) if you run a 5% vacancy number and it moves to 2 months, that is 16%, and more than that and it can be a mess. Also that one month will throw off future rentals and may move your rental agreement from stopping in July to August... The next line that I hear agents say commonly is, I can help you do the management, or don't pay someone to manage the property. Well, if you don't pay someone, who is paying you for your time? Management in my opinion should always have a line with or without a property manager. Every agent will tell you I can help, but can they honestly help and do correct numbers or fix your projections.... I have found that the answer is no, and if it were yes, would they be an investor or an agent? Each investor should run their own numbers and understand how to make their projections work. Agents typically don't care if you financially wound yourself by doing rentals, in fact they will help you buy and sell a terrible investment so they get the money on both ends of the transaction... Agents help with transactions and not math, and investing is a math problem. Agents care, want to help, and give advice, but from what I have seen, most are poor at math. They feel you out for this, "Are you ready to buy a property?" If they think no, you won't hear from most of them again, and an investor is like a hunter with one or two bullets. Investors get to take A shot, their shot, their way and on their terms. Being an agent and trying to "gas them up" to purchase things at a higher price, is an agent not looking out for their clients best interest. Most agents/brokers are in Real Estate for the transaction..... If you truly want to cater to your investor clients, run your own numbers on 100 properties a month, then help them do the same. Investing is a matter of execution and planning, so the question really is are you going to throw out an offer from a client to a "friend" agent that is 30% below asking? Your investor client has the math to back up his price. Investors know that no deal is better than a bad deal... agents don't always see that.

Post: Is Social Media Worth It?

Phil OlingerPosted
  • Harrisburg, SD
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 8

Is social media worth it? I am about done with a 6 month period of being off of my social media sites, Facebook, LinkedIn, NextDoor, etc, and I don't know if I will return. I am leaning toward the "Delete" feature for everything but Bigger Pockets and one other site. The only reason I stay here is that this site is targeted and specific and isn't a whirlwind of the world's or peoples problems. Will this be a mistake?

Personally, I am a pessimistic person, and I have been way happier since my sabbatical. The only concern I have is fear of missing out, the great real estate deal on Facebook etc.... Am I missing out by deleting most of my social media? Any thoughts that people have would greatly help me.

Post: How to analyze deals?

Phil OlingerPosted
  • Harrisburg, SD
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 8

1. Real Estate Agent: Interview a handful of real estate agents. Also be prepared and ask questions in this process, a friend or buddy isn't going to cut it. Pick someone who meets what you want to have done.... Do 3 or more interviews. Ask them to help you develop a process to analyze real estate deals. Ask each of them to send you their deal analysis software. This may help you judge them based on that type of software they use, also see if you connect and are on the same page. It is hard to find real estate agents who will help you do investing, all agents will help do a deal, but an agent that is active and aware of good deals are hard to find, some agents will lose patience or be out of the game if it takes you a bit to pull the trigger. Just be aware.

2. Funding (mortgage): Call multiple banks and just get some pre-cursory numbers. So if you are thinking of doing a Cash out refinance and mortgage or a HELOC. If you are just doing a straight down payment and mortgage on a primary residence, This will help you decide on price points that you are comfortable with.

3. Deal Analysis: Pick one of those real estate agents from your interview process and then have them set up search parameters and then just take the first home in the search that they send you and type it into an excel sheet and analyze the deal. Make a pact with yourself to have x number of deals analyzed daily, or weekly or whatever works best for you. Just by doing this you will get a feel for your market and what is a deal and where you want your numbers to be. Once a house, fits the numbers you have set based on; down payment, reserves, taxes, HOA, Cap Ex, and mortgage, then you can download something from here to do a deep dive, I found a good rental deep dive tool on another housing website, and do a deep dive on the numbers and see if it is really worth it. It will add in additional set of criteria to think about. Just repeat this process over and over and then go see the homes that meet your paper criteria. Decide if that is what you want or alter your expectations.

Post: How Do You Manage Your Money?

Phil OlingerPosted
  • Harrisburg, SD
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 8

1. Pay off debt, save up an emergency fund and then invest in something that you have an area of expertise in. 

2. Invest in what you know. So if you know local real estate, then do that, or if the stock market interests you read up on that.

ME PERSONALLY: I use mutual funds and I find them very clean, and simple to explain. It takes a bit of effort, but it is pretty straight forward, and I don't do the indexing because the returns are directly tied to the market. Market up you win, market down you lose. You can do better for a little extra effort. If you want more explanation on how to find mutual funds with great returns and what I do please reach out and direct message me. I teach Dave Ramsey Courses locally and the question "How do I Invest my money?" is one that I constantly get and is the hardest to explain. I can't show you cool tricks, but I can show you what I do to build a huge 401k or Roth IRA or taxable investing account. Just message me directly and I will try to help a bit.

Disclaimer: I am not a stockbroker and won't make any direct recommendations, I will just help you develop your theory on what you think will work for you. Showing you how to search and research these is pretty straight forward.

Post: Investing too young?

Phil OlingerPosted
  • Harrisburg, SD
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 8

1. Easy: I am a bit of a reader, so my advice, since you are only 19 is to get a library card and hit the books. Grab books by Suze Orman, Dave Ramsey, Robert Kiyosaki, Jim Cramer, Warren Buffet, and Donal Trump. I can't remember the authors, but "Millionaire Real Estate Investor" and anything with real estate in the title. Use these books as an approach to build your wealth. They will give you guides into how to build a real estate empire and provide insights on how to become wealthy. 

2. Harder: Find a mentor (Be humble, patient and polite .... work hard for them because ultimately you have to offer them something in return) Everyone gets asked to be a mentor, but the mentor needs to get something out of the deal. Very few people who ask for a mentor think about the person across from them "because they made their money already." Also, very few people want to be truly mentored. Listen to their criticism and be patient with everything. 

3. Hardest: Use all of those two things above and jump. Just start and work your plan, eventually things will work out. 

My personal plan: I am conservative, I don't like debt and so "other peoples money" is a bad idea in my mind. (other people here know how to do it and maybe this is more you...you aren't wrong, just know what the risks are). So first I got out of debt and live on less than I make. (I think of it like this ... every dollar I don't spend on is a tool to be invested) I am building a taxable mutual fund portfolio (I think of this as my personal bank) that will buy properties 1 at a time. I am comfortable with mutual funds, personally I have had great returns and know where to put my money (again I know the risks and know what I am doing, these may not be for you... so read and do number 1 and 2). Also the bar for investing in those is largely $3,000.00 or less. Once that account gets big enough. I am going to just going to buy 1 property and take its profits into the fund and keep loading it to buy the second, and the third and so on. I understand I will be viewed as an idiot for those who want to be rich by 30. I get that I may not appeal to you, but it is my plan and it has been working. With that in mind I figure I only need 5-10 doors and that full taxable fund and then ... I retire. That taxable fund with that number of doors will create a self sustaining property monster that can buy 1-2 properties per year. 

Good Luck! Also, no you are never to young to invest, but you just may not be perfect or special like your mom told you.