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All Forum Posts by: Robert Gunby

Robert Gunby has started 18 posts and replied 55 times.

Post: 5-20 Unit "Sweet Spot" Properties

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16

@Ben Morand @Erik W. The appraiser used comps like Erik mentioned. He told the bank that he couldn't justify giving the higher appraisal when nothing around supported it. It is in a rural town so the cash flow is awesome, but I'll have to wait a few years to refi and tap the equity.

Post: 5-20 Unit "Sweet Spot" Properties

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16
Originally posted by @Erik W.:

@Ben Morand, hi.

First, I'll start with some of the information you've laid out.  Then, I'll give you my thoughts on why I think you should do these kinds of deals.

1) "I've heard that most experienced commercial investors are not looking for such small properties, and would prefer to invest in large multifamily (80-100+ units) to increase their return."  Based on my research as well, this is correct in my market.

2) "This leaves the smaller, 5-20 unit commercial space with less concentration and more opportunity for deals".  Maybe.  But keep in mind that even though institutional investors aren't looking for these, people like you are.  Do you think there are more institutional investors or private investors in your area?  You also lose economics of scale in management and maintenance.  

3) "I also am attracted to the fact that commercial value is based upon NOI and cap rate". Partially true. CAP Rate is the measure for commercial properties, but you cannot do a whole lot to a 5-10 unit building that will dramatically impact the value other than simply raising rents. Switching from fluorescence light bulbs to LEDs in 200 units saves thousands of dollars over a year. In 5 units...maybe $30-$40 a month. Also, a 100 unit complex can probably afford full-time or part-time staff. With less than 20 units you will be self-managing or hiring a property manager who manages other units that you don't own and will probably pay the standard 10% of monthly rent fees plus maintenance mark ups. Also, my experience with banks/lenders/inventors says you don't really start looking at CAP rates until you hit 50+ units. Yes, 5+ units mean you will be getting a commercial LOAN, but until your deal becomes self-sustaining it doesn't measure according to CAP rates.

Remember what the function of a CAP rate is: to provide a way to do apples to apples comparison on rate of investment return between different asset classes. But how does a self-managed 10 unit compare to a diversified stock market portfolio? It can't really. Thus, you need a building that can support staff so that even if you, the investor, sells or drops off the face of the earth, there's a team in place for the new owner(s) and business continues as usual. Internal rate of return is a more sophisticated measure of apples to apples comparison, and if your investment doesn't qualify for that level of scrutiny, it likely doesn't qualify for CAP rate analysis. Sure, you can run a CAP rate with single family houses and duplexes if you want to--the formula is the same regardless--but keep in mind most people won't do it that way.

Now all that said, I think 5-20 units is a good spot for a new investor to get started.  Just keep in mind that you won't be flying high like the big boy syndicators for a bit.  Starting smaller but still with multi-units is a great way to learn the ropes and give you some equity towards your next deal, without putting yourself at risks of multi-millions of $$$.  You can learn about tenant management and make contacts with contractors, local Govt officials, lenders/money partners, etc, which can all help you in future deals.

I hope this helps. Good luck!


This is true. I have a 5-Unit in a rural area and by using the cap rate and NOI, it would have been valued at 225K, but was appraised for significantly less because of the location.



Post: Handyman/ Property Management Fee or Monthly

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16

@Dan Handford @Tracy Streich Thanks for the advice! I'm going to sit down and be more clear as to what his job and title and role will be as you both stated. It's always nice to get a different perspective.

Post: Handyman/ Property Management Fee or Monthly

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16
Hello all. I have a contractor that is the handyman, he cuts grass, handles all repair or maintenance issues with tenants, he is basically on call 24/7. He makes sure the tenants are in line with outside appearance and such. He just doesn’t do the leasing aspect. I have a leasinng agent that does that. They get half of the first months rent. Would the handyman get 8% of effective gross or should it be only a fee when he is called out to the property. We are talking about 5 and 6 units here.

Post: FSBO Process from agreement to closing

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16

Hello all, I am doing my first FSBO. What is the process like? I have always used a Real Estate Agent. The my thinking of the process: I would call an attorney to draft the purchase and sale agreement, send it to the seller's attorney for them to review and sign, and then send it to the bank for financing? I know that you can use a RE agent as a 'transaction agent' and the one I talked to said that he would do it for 1% of the purchase price (90k). Just trying to understand the process to minimize fees and cost that can be avoided by my own understanding and due diligence.

Post: Line of Credit with Bank

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16
@Sarah Korsah she did my mortgage for my first commercial loan and there was equity left over and she said she could make that a line of credit. We have closed over a month ago and I emailed her twice and both times she said she was going to get on it. I think I’m going to schedule a professional lunch date so she knows I really want it and to pick her brain about other ways we can get deals done when I bring them to her. :)

Post: Line of Credit with Bank

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16
@David Hildebrandt Thanks for the motivation. I will definitely do that!

Post: Line of Credit with Bank

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16
Hello all, I recently received an appraisal back and the Bank said that they would be able to get me a line of credit. The woman that handled my mortgage said she would get right on it. I followed up two weeks later and she said the same thing. Do I keep contacting her until she finally does it? My reasoning was that I didn’t want to burn any bridges with someone at the bank because they have been extremely helpful and beneficial.

Post: Portfolio loan contacts that lend in Pittsburgh area

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16

@Jonathan C. Try S&T Bank. I work with them and they are great.

Post: Buying a House While being in Debt!!

Robert GunbyPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Springfield, VA
  • Posts 56
  • Votes 16

@Julian Joseph I have about 80k in debt and own 7 units now. My first option would be to purchase a triplex or quad. Live rent free, and then use most of your money to pay down your debt. If you can't do that, then make friends with some credit unions. I am a teacher so I am under a repayment program where I only pay 10% of my net income for ten years and it is forgiven. Also, if I ever lost my job and couldn't make my payments, then my payments would drop significantly and still count towards forgiveness, that is why I'm not extremely worried about investing with the debt. I was in that same dilemma debating if I should knock out my student debt first, but if you don't start now, odds are you won't ever start investing. I don't own my own house as I won't until I am married and have double income. I rent a room out for now, 600 a month and work a side gig and use all of that money on top of my rentals that cash flow to save for the next one. Also, make sure that your first purchase is a good one. I was able to pull money out of my first rental to get the second one. You just have to be committed and think outside the box. If there is a will, there is a way.