All Forum Posts by: Nik Moushon

Quote from @Marco Cruzatt:

You can have 2 carbon copies of the same floor plan but if the site varies then the Civil Plans will be different.   

uhhh.....what?! How are architectural plans not for construction purposes? This is an absurd statement. 

Depending on the site, the jurisdiction, and complexity of the project you do not have to hire a civil engineer for a project. Most small projects only need a surveyor to get updated boundary lines and possibly topo for an architect to be able to do the site plan. It's not until larger projects where you have to start considering storm water retention and run off that the jurisdiction requires a civil engineer is need to be brought onto the team. 

@David Rutledge

I second everything @Jared W Smith just said. The biggest being that unless all three parties agreed to transfer the original design contract, you have next to zero leverage on the architect to do anything as I doubt you have any contract with him. Personally, and in every office ive worked in, transferring contracts are not a thing. We do a new contract with the new owner. Selling properties before/during/after permitting is a common thing, we see it happen more often on large multi family than SF but it happens. Either way though...its a brand new contract. 

With that said though....the fact that the architect has been in communication with and implied that he is working on your behalf and working to get the drawings in for permit has now created an "implied contract" (i dont know the exact legal term for it). In a court of law the way he has acted has indeed implied that there was at least verbal agreement to continue working, which is a contract. But you'd have to take him to court to get this to work in your favor. So last resort kind of thing here.

My first suggestion would be to see if the architect would give you the permit ready documents and you submit them. Yes it can be a pain to deal with the city but now that they know the struggle you are dealing with, they are more than likely to work with you to get them in. More than likely there are comments needing to be addressed after their review so you will still need to work with the architect. 

Another suggestion is to see if the architect will release the drawings with offering a liability waiver. Having him provide the full permit ready documents and CAD/revit files to you so you can find another firm that can help you properly. This might cost you extra but at least you get to move forward. If there is an engineer involved already for the structural design you could go straight to them with the drawings and talk with them to see what they can do. They have the ability to stamp the entire set for submittal, and more likely too, since they did the design. Finding another architect to take over a drawing set will be tough....not impossible...just really tough. 

Some cities allow for building drawings to be submitted without an architects seal if they are under a certain square footage or meet other requirements. This would be another last resort option as then you have to figure out how to deal with everything the city throws at you comment wise. 

Last suggestion is to talk with your REA and have them be a part of the conversation with the selling agent. If the listing was sold based on the premise that the drawings were permit ready you potentially have a legal case against them as well. I wouldnt go in threatening law suites but start off by trying to get them and the seller involved....because the seller still has contractual rights with the architect to force his hand because permit drawings are independent of the land owner. You'll have to sign the permit drawings as the land owner but the contract is still enforceable by the seller. Though hopefully they are nice enough to even care to help. 

Quote from @Alex U.:

Typically if an architect is designing a duplex ADU, with the same floor plan on the top and bottom. They may charge $8-12k.

If this design was going to be replicated 8 times, ie 16 units total, what is a fair cost to pay for design, given it is a copy and paste of the first one?

 Architects designs are copyrighted just like artists paintings. So without their permission, legally, you can't reuse the same design over and over. It can be negotiated to be that way but be up front if you are going to do that. 

To your main question, its complicated. Is it all on the same site or 8 different sites? Each site is unique so that means 8 different site plans and a lot of other small things to double check and make sure everything works correctly. Even if its on the same site, every square foot of land is different from the next. Just lots of things to consider so its usually just time consuming things and not complicated design issues. 

If I was charging $10k for an duplex ADU, and have the same plan repeated 8x on the same site I would probably end up charging something in the $20-25k range. If it was all on different sites it would probably end up being $10k for the first and then probably charge hourly, around $3-5k is my guess, for each site, depending on the complexity of the site and the jurisdiction. The jurisdictions can waste so much of the architects/engineers time that it is very hard to predict.

And of course this is based on my local costs, not yours. So a local architect to you could be WAY different and be the normal price range for where you are. 

Quote from @Mark Williams:

Hi Nick, 

Getting a high-level guesstimate for your project might not provide you with the accuracy you need. I'd recommend having a few contractors assess your project in person. Many contractors offer free consultations and estimates. This way, you can get more precise cost estimates tailored to your specific situation, which will be much more valuable than a rough estimate from a distance. Regarding zoning, it's essential to consult your local zoning authority to determine the applicable zoning regulations for your project and whether it can still fall under single-family residential use. Local regulations can vary significantly, so it's best to get this information directly from the source.

-Mark

 I think you might have replied to the wrong thread....

Quote from @Nick Wehrley:

@Jared W Smith

So what I’ve found so far the building would be around $5,000 to relocate and purchasing the structure would be around 17-20k. The benefit to purchasing this over building would be that it already has a roof, siding, some windows.

 Is that an actual quote from a moving company or just your own research? $5k sounds way too cheap, i don't care where you live. $5k will only cover about three 8-hour days of work for 4-5 guys and thats just their salary, not any equipment or materials or other costs.

Lets just assume that you actually got a quote on that. What you need to double check is what are all the things that quote covers and doesn't cover. permit fees? car escort fee? gas and mileage? flaggers? Do you have to close any roads because theirs permits and fees and costs to police you have to pay? Can the building even fit down any of the roads or does it have to be cut in half or pieces? Are power lines in the way that need to be raised or unhooked? Are they insured (possible bonded)? 

I just find it hard to believe that if you can get a shell of a building for $20k, that moving a 800sf building is somehow a quarter of the cost. My only suggestion is that if you make sure to get a fully detailed and itemized quote and really figure out what is covered and not covered in the quote. This seems like its one of those things where the cost could balloon very easy on items you didn't realize where not covered. 

Unless all you are doing is dragging that building from one end of a field to another I can guarantee that building new will be cheaper than relocating a building. 

@Dylan Gilbert

Here is my journey on starting with new construction duplex build. 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

New construction is not as easy as it sounds. There are a LOT of steep learning curves you will need to learn with the little (no?) experience that you have. I wont shoot you down here but just be prepared to learn a lot really quickly and have backup plans when things go south. 

@Scott E.

I don't say this in a mean way but....your comments show you don't understand what architects and engineers truly do. You think we only draw pretty pictures and put construction drawings together. I can tell you that design is only a small fraction of the time spent on a project. Construction drawings are a much larger percentage of time but not the key point. I spend 60-70% of my time, on pretty much any project, doing things that aren't designing or drafting. There are so many components to a building that AI can't ouch....not in 10 years anyways. Maybe 50 years....maybe. We are way way too far away from jurisdictions allow AI drawn building sets to be approved without a licensed professional human behind them. 

It is 100% true that AI will be disruptive to many fields...including architecture...but architecture is not a field that is getting replaced by AI. We will definitely be adapting and using AI in our profession going forward but it will only make us more efficient and effective...not obsolete. The good ones will be able to raise our prices, not lower them, since we will be able to get you a full set of drawings in a fraction of the time. Time is money. For all parties involved.

@Jack B.

Yes you are correct. 60 day notice. On top of that, if I remember correctly, they can push back against even that. They can also try and force you to work out a plan for them to stay. I don't remember all the details of the new laws....they came into effect Jan 1, 2022 if I think. 

Anyways, after I sat through a 2 hr seminar on the new changes back then, I just remember coming out of it and making the easy decision to never rent m2m again. Even my 12m lease does not roll over into m2m. I make everyone resign a new 12m lease. 

Quote from @Heath G.:

Please help me with my math. I am considering building multiple duplexes on vacant land that I own. However, I am being told that to build a 2,000 sf duplex the cost will be around $400,000. If I collect ~$2,500 in rent, I won't be able to cash flow. Is the total cost to build, correct? I'm in the O'Fallon, MO area. I will need a property manager as well. Any advice?

Is that 2000 sf per unit or total? Collecting $2500 per unit or total?