Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:
I think Charlie nailed it.
Nicholas, you have in your sig. line, finance, credit and insurance, mind saying exactly what it is you do? I'm just guessing consumer lending. And, when asked what bank or company you work for, there is no secret there nor is it considered advertising on BP, so, for example, if you run a shop at Household Finance, or Quicken Mortgage, or ABC Bank, or the finance department at a car or MH dealership, you can say so. So, who do you do loans with?
Dodd-Frank has not taken away prudent lending practices, consistency is the key.
The interpretation of open credit with respect to the guidelines is as Charlie mentioned, the example I gave as to the computation is simply a common overlay, not a rule, but prudent in mortgage lending, also commercial lending.
We also like to see the use of cash, use of credit, there is still a lot of flexibility for a lender to forecast perceived risks. The basic rule is fair and consistent underwriting, if it's not you open the doors to predatory lending.
Debating the art of underwriting isn't a good way to build credibility on BP, giving good advice is, so I'll leave you to your debating. When bad advice is given, I usually say something, IMO. Haven't seen any, just an opinion. :)
Oh, edited:
How do we calculate debt with an adjustable rate of interest? You can use the current rate or the go up to the margin for the next adjustment or, some even use the ceiling rate depending on the loan, it's an overlay. :)
Hi Bill. First thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to chime in. I'll answer your question in that I am in consumer lending but would prefer anonymity beyond that. I respect that many are here to build credibility and relationships. I'm not.
I'll also clarify my position on this -I've seen credit scores damaged by people closing credit lines that they should not because of this exact type of advice.
I don't think Charlie nailed it. Blanket statements like that are not incontestable and can be misleading. And a statement like this is likely to be interpreted as fact, not opinion:
You can check fannie mae underwriting, if a credit card has a zero balance, and that account is still open, half the high credit amount that had been used is used to compute debt ratios. High credit outstanding within a year, say $5,000.00, at application it has a zero balance, say terms of that card are 3% of balance out standing, then it would be:
$2500 x 3% = $75.00 payment computed to the debt ratio.
In taking the time to check the underwriting guidelines, I've found that there is no such wording and nobody else has produced a citation indicating truth to this concept either. An individual lender could make a decision to treat all credit cards that way, but that would also be a conscience decision to decline many otherwise well qualified applicants. There's no evidence suggesting that its the norm.
@Charlie Fitzgerald saying "Most lenders will have you freeze the lines at whatever point your dti will cover..." is just plain confusing. Freezing a credit line is a fraud prevention technique and possibly a self discipline technique. It has no application to credit limits at all, let along any relationship to Debt to Income that I can follow. Again, a specific lender may, but you're telling everybody here that this is a standard. *citation
I'll back this with data.
FHA posts their DTI guidelines here - no mention of any revolving debt in the calculation.
Quicken Loans explains their FNMA Guidelines for DTI here - The specify "Credit card payment (from amounts owed)" and "The monthly payments figured in are also the absolute minimum payment amounts, so if you pay extra every month, that amount would not be figured into this ratio."
Bank of America explains DTI here - no mention. They even have a handy little worksheet here.
Wells Fargo explains DTI here - again stating "Credit card payments (use the minimum payment)".
The list goes on and on. Granted, they don't publish their proprietary underwriting guidelines, but are they really going to offer consumers ways to check their qualifications just to get them in the door and then decline them based on available credit? My attorney would probably advice it would be dancing dangerously close to a deceptive advertising practice. Considering that the FTC and CFPB actually have a cooperation agreement, I'd venture that major lenders tread very cautiously in that territory.
Nothing personal, guys. It's just that people are coming here for good advice and unfortunately, sometimes bad (or in this case, probably just outdated) advice is given with great intentions. Most people probably won't read all of this anyway :)