All Forum Posts by: Wesley W.

Thanks to @Nathan Gesner @JD Martin for the formulae for the bill back.

And yes, I agree with you JD - I've also switched over to vinyl for exactly the reasons you state, but this unit was at the tail end of the "Pergo era."

@Bill B. I'm in NY (maybe only NYers know it as The Vampire State,a play on it's traditional moniker), so there are legislative hurdles to what you all are suggesting.  We only have 14 days to return the security deposit, so it's difficult to line up the trades to get estimates on this kind of work in that amount of time.  I can assure you the dearth of the work force everyone is experiencing is an order of magnitude higher here.

The materials would be about $100, so the labor would put this particular repair in the "going to take my landlord to court" level.  Given there are other repairs to charge back, I've resigned myself that I'll be explaining this to a judge at some point, which is why I came here for feedback on the charge.

I think I've got the game plan now.  I appreciate everyone's input.

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Quote from @Wesley W.:

Quote from @Richard F.:

Aloha,

You do not state where the damage was...kitchen? living room? Have you ruled out seepage from a slow leak from a water heater, or pinhole leak? If this was a long term slow event, not all Tenants would be observant enough to notice and report.

At best, you might be allowed to consider replacement of the one room, based on depreciated value. Styles and Dye Lots change often, which needs to be considered when purchasing. Always get extra..."in case".

 It's in a bedroom, caused by the placement of a dog's water dish.  Truth be told, I have some extra planks, not sure if I have enough to replace all of the damaged ones, but in this case it's not a "dye lot" thing - the style/pattern of the planks are no longer made by the manufacturer.

The cost for replacing the one room would far exceed the tenant's security deposit.  I'm just not sure a NY judge would agree that replacing the entire floor would be justified.

 Any chance you can 'borrow' some from a closet or under a fridge or stove and replace those with a similar colour? That way the mismatched ones won't be as visible.

 I love the creativity, but I am afraid the "juice would not be worth the squeeze."

What I'm really trying is to be compensated for the shortened life of the floor to offset the cost of a new floor in the next handful of years when the seams begin to chip and the whole thing will need to be replaced.  How do I calculate the charge and be able to justify it to a judge?

Quote from @Scott Mac:

If you had used Vinyl Sheet flooring in the bathroom, going 3 inches up the walls with a metal top cap on the edges--you would not be having this problem.

If you put hard to fix, delicate things in a rental you are probably going to have issues down the road.

Maybe to be competitive you need to use a different type of floor, but finding something waterproof for a bathroom--that can be fixed easier, seems like a good move.

I mean if a water from a dog dish in a bathroom ruins the floor--that (to me) seems too delicate for that area.

Okay, so, Scott - it looks like you are "barking up the wrong tree" (see what I did, there?) - since in my post I explained the dog dish was in a BEDROOM. 

Obi Wan must have been waving his fingers in front of your nose when you were constructing your response.

Thanks to those that are offering constructive suggestions and feedback.

@Nathan Gesner  the spot is actually in a high traffic area right in the doorway between the living room and this bedroom (same continuous sheet of planks).  It is indeed next to a wall/doorway, but that wall unfortunately contacts the SHORT ends of the planks, so unless I am going to cut away some tongues on the planks, I need to go to the nearest wall that parallels the long ends.  But yeah, I'm picking up what you're putting down - charge for the planks and labor - HOWEVER those style planks are no longer available, so I am not able to have the work done, apart from replacing the entire floor.  That was really the issue from my OP.  How do I charge for "depreciated life" of the floor if I am not able to repair the area?

Quote from @Richard F.:

Aloha,

You do not state where the damage was...kitchen? living room? Have you ruled out seepage from a slow leak from a water heater, or pinhole leak? If this was a long term slow event, not all Tenants would be observant enough to notice and report.

At best, you might be allowed to consider replacement of the one room, based on depreciated value. Styles and Dye Lots change often, which needs to be considered when purchasing. Always get extra..."in case".

 It's in a bedroom, caused by the placement of a dog's water dish.  Truth be told, I have some extra planks, not sure if I have enough to replace all of the damaged ones, but in this case it's not a "dye lot" thing - the style/pattern of the planks are no longer made by the manufacturer.

The cost for replacing the one room would far exceed the tenant's security deposit.  I'm just not sure a NY judge would agree that replacing the entire floor would be justified.

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

Quote from @Wesley W.:

Hey BP!

Here's one for you.  Tenants moved out and there is water damage to several planks of the Pergo laminate floor that was newly installed just before they moved in 3 years ago.  The seams between the planks have swollen, and I know from experience that this will dramatically shorten the usuable lifespan of the floor, as the corners will soon begin to delaminate and chip.   Obviously, tenants are responsible for this damage and will be billed accordingly.

Here are some dynamics that are making my accounting of a charge a bit challenging.

(1)  For those not familiar with these products, replacing damaged planks requires the removal of all the courses of flooring from the nearest parallel wall.  This is very labor intensive.

(2)  The particular color of the floor is no longer available, even from third party vendors.  So, even if I wanted to replace the planks, the preceding prohibts that as an option.

My position is that this damage has dramatically shortened the life of this new floor.  I do not think it is reasonable to charge them for an entirely new floor in this area (about 375 sq ft.) and I am sure a NY judge would throw up all over that attempt, but on the same token I am concerned if I charge for the damage, but "don't have the work done", a judge will say it's betterment and will deny the charge.

My questions:

(A)  How would I arrive at an equitable charge for this damage that will cause for flooring to prematurely fail?

(B)  How would I navigate the tenant-friendly court proceeding that will almoist certainly follow, given that the damaged planks will not be replaced?

I know for other items, judges typically pro-rae the value based on the remaining life expectancy of the appliance/improvement, but in this case it seems that would be a bit complex.  I have not had to deal with this situation in my tenure, but I am sure some of you have, so I would really appreciate the guidance.

 A tenant of three years and there were several boards needing replacement. I would chop that up to routine maintenance / wear and tear and get the boards replaced. 

 You did not read all of my post, sir.

Hey BP!

Here's one for you.  Tenants moved out and there is water damage to several planks of the Pergo laminate floor that was newly installed just before they moved in 3 years ago.  The seams between the planks have swollen, and I know from experience that this will dramatically shorten the usuable lifespan of the floor, as the corners will soon begin to delaminate and chip.   Obviously, tenants are responsible for this damage and will be billed accordingly.

Here are some dynamics that are making my accounting of a charge a bit challenging.

(1)  For those not familiar with these products, replacing damaged planks requires the removal of all the courses of flooring from the nearest parallel wall.  This is very labor intensive.

(2)  The particular color of the floor is no longer available, even from third party vendors.  So, even if I wanted to replace the planks, the preceding prohibts that as an option.

My position is that this damage has dramatically shortened the life of this new floor.  I do not think it is reasonable to charge them for an entirely new floor in this area (about 375 sq ft.) and I am sure a NY judge would throw up all over that attempt, but on the same token I am concerned if I charge for the damage, but "don't have the work done", a judge will say it's betterment and will deny the charge.

My questions:

(A)  How would I arrive at an equitable charge for this damage that will cause for flooring to prematurely fail?

(B)  How would I navigate the tenant-friendly court proceeding that will almoist certainly follow, given that the damaged planks will not be replaced?

I know for other items, judges typically pro-rae the value based on the remaining life expectancy of the appliance/improvement, but in this case it seems that would be a bit complex.  I have not had to deal with this situation in my tenure, but I am sure some of you have, so I would really appreciate the guidance.

Here in NY, many properties will not cash flow at the 1% rule due to high taxes and other expenses.  The 2% rule worked at one time, but it's no longer viable in this market. I look more closely at anything above 1% and see if there is a value add opportunity to bring it into a reasonable yield for the risk.

Unfortunately, the NOLO books are sadly out of date for NYS.  New York has rewritten many applicable statutes of the RPAPL in the last few years, and the legislature is back at it again in this new session as there a still few remaining property owner rights that need to be stripped away and given to the tenants. ;)

@Pat Caruso Happy to network with you regarding landlording resources.  Feel free to reach out.

Quote from @Stan F.:

 @Nathan Gesner Do you think it is worth even exploring option of moving due date in this situation to allow him to be more aligned with his paychecks. 

As always, Nathan is giving you the information you may or may not want to hear.

With respect, based on your comments it sounds like you are letting emotions get in the way of running your business.  If you want to have this rental property "on the side" and offer philanthropy at your discretion as a way of giving back, go for it - that's an appeal of operating your own small business.  But if you are relying on business revenue to feed your family and stay solvent, like many of us are, all those personal dynamics are not applicable.  Yeah, inflation's a b*tch.  Propping up the economy by printing a trillion dollars will predictably do that - but both your personal and business costs have increased as well (at least mine have) and that's a fact of life.  I rent to adults.

Directly to your comment - I would never modify my business operations and systems for a tenant.  If you have just one exception to your system, you no longer have a system and you lose that efficiency for your business.  The entire western world of real estate operates on a cycle starting on the first of every month.