Quote from @Mike Lambert:
Quote from @Montse C.:
Quote from @Mike Lambert:
@Montse C.
I was totally shocked to read your comparison between Southern Spain and Southern Italy as it makes absolutely no sense to me, especially from a real estate point of view. What you wrote is actually kinda correct and I quote: "I would say it is actually quite similar to Southern Spain in many ways. For example, Southern Spain tends to be more affordable than the north, especially if you look at rural areas or small villages. Just like in Southern Italy, where houses are sold for as little as one euro, similar initiatives exist in Spain to attract people to repopulate villages and revitalize these areas." the one part I'd disagree with is "many".
So why was I shocked then? Because your statements are extremely misleading (unintentionally I suppose). Indeed, BP is about real estate and:
1. I haven't seen any statistics to this effect and I don't think any has necessarily been compiled but I bet I wouldn't exaggerate if I state that 95% of the value of real estate in Southern Spain or at least the province of Andalucia is in the Costa del Sol. The Costa del Sol is one of the world's most successful tourism success in the world ever. It started in the 1960's or something and has gone from success to success, overcoming all crises. Nowadays, people from all over the world vacation, work temporarily, move (with or without their business) and retire in the Costa del Sol. Many billionaires and celebrities own property there, including lots of Americans.The infrastructure is top notch. And it goes well beyond that. Even the main city of Malaga, who was considered a backwater city just 10 years ago has become very popular and is now turning itself in a little Silicon Valley and banking center. The Costa del Sol has been pulling the economy of Andalucia, Southern Spain in general and the whole country for decades.
2. Nobody on here is likely interested in investing in a small village in Southern Spain as it would make no sense but there are loads of Americans investing in the Costa del Sol so it's important to focus on what matters to the community if we want to help and make sure we don't discourage them with involuntarily misleading statement.
In comparison, Southern Italy has none of that, expect for the little Amalfi Coast at a very small scale. And then, the proof is in the pudding as far as what interests us, real estate. While real estate prices have been steadily increasing in Southern Spain over the last decades, they've been steadily declining in Southern Italy.
I was even more shocked as I assumed that Montse would be your first name and you therefore would be Spanish (I found that out because somebody called Montse joined the owners' Facebook group of a community in which we own a condo in the Costa del Sol). But then, looking at your profile, I realized you live in the Netherlands now. If you have time, I'd suggest you travel through Southern Spain and then Southern Italy and then you tell us if it's similar. You might be very pleasantly surprised.
To conclude, it's great to have more new members like you from Europe contributing to the forum. Personally, I always try to avoid general statements that could be misleading. My whole point to responding to your post here is to help avoid that people who might have been considering investing in the Costa del Sol discard the opportunity because they think it's like Southern Italy.
Hi Mike,
First, I want to emphasize that my intention was never to provide misleading information. At no point did I specifically mention the Costa del Sol in my comparison between Southern Spain and Southern Italy. Andalucía is much more than just the Costa del Sol, and my intention was to speak about Southern Spain in general, including rural areas and small villages, which can also offer opportunities depending on the type of investment being sought.
When I spoke of similarities with Southern Italy, I did not mean they were categorically identical but rather that they share certain characteristics, such as affordability in rural areas and initiatives to revitalize villages. These initiatives exist in both Italy and Spain but are not meant to compete with developed areas like the Costa del Sol.
That said, it’s important to note that I know the Costa del Sol very well, as my parents are from the region. Additionally, I split my time living between Spain and the Netherlands, giving me a fairly broad perspective on both countries. For this reason, I find it surprising that you would question my knowledge of the region without knowing me. I believe making statements about me based on assumptions does not contribute to a constructive dialogue. No one holds absolute truth, and there’s always room to expand our perspective through the exchange of experiences.
I am fully aware of the Costa del Sol’s significance as an economic engine for the region and as one of the most globally relevant destinations. However, I believe limiting a discussion about Southern Spain exclusively to the Costa del Sol overlooks the diversity of opportunities the region offers beyond mass tourism and highly developed areas.
Regarding your comments about my name and the fact that I reside in the Netherlands, I fail to see how this could affect the validity of my observations. As someone commenting from their experience as a Spanish national and someone familiar with both markets, my goal is to share perspectives based on my personal and professional knowledge.
I understand that you have a different perspective, and I appreciate you sharing it. I believe that these types of exchanges are important to enrich the discussion and add value to the community. My intention is not to discourage anyone from investing in the Costa del Sol, especially considering that I never specifically referred to this region. My goal was to provide a broader perspective for those who might be considering other opportunities in Southern Europe.
Montse
Hi Montse,
There's no need to defend yourself when you're not attacked. If you reread my post, you'll see that I was clear that my purpose was to avoid that what you wrote would unintentionally mislead. Also, I never question your knowledge of the region. I was just surprised that a Spaniard would make the comparison you made.
It's a fact of life that some people hate to be contradicted and can't make the difference between a discussion over a specific matter and a personal attack (I'm taking in general here). Knowing that you're new in the forum and to avoid a potential reaction of the style "Who's this idiot who thinks he knows my country better than me?", I went to extra lengths to make sure that you wouldn't take my post as a personal attack by starting by mentioning that I agree with what you wrote and concluding by mentioning that the sole purpose of my post was to make sure that yours wasn't intentionally misleading.
So, over the form, my suggestion as an elder of the forum would be for you to not take everything personally and, if you still think you're being personally attacked (it can happen to everyone), read the post again and make sure you don't misinterpreted what the author meant before publicly complaining about him/her.
Most importantly, over the content, you're correct that the Costa del Sol isn't the whole of Southern Spain. However, you forgot/didn't mention the Costa del Sol, which, from an international real estate point of view (the topic here), is what matters. The fact of the matter is that the overall majority of international investors who invest in Southern Spain justifiably only do so in the Costa del Sol. Unfortunately, such an opportunity doesn't exist in Southern Italy, whereby the comparison between Southern Spain and Southern Italy, while valid when it comes to the situation of some small villages in the back country, doesn't make sense when it comes to international real estate investments. But there's no need for you or anyone to take my word for it. Just check the facts and figures.
Like you suggested, there are various opinions, which are all valuable and it's great like that. However, as the saying goes, while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, nobody is entitled to their own facts (as there is only one set of facts). If you had the time to read the 1,000+ posts I have published, you'd see that I rarely express any opinion (unless asked) and that what I mention is more often than not based on facts and figures. This is no exception.
Hope this clarifies the matter.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your detailed response and for taking the time to share your perspective. I truly appreciate your effort to ensure that the information on this forum is accurate and helpful for everyone. It’s clear that you are a passionate and knowledgeable person on this topic, which always adds a great deal of value to these kinds of discussions.
Your comment made me smile, especially the part about "Who’s this idiot who thinks he knows my country better than me?". Haha, don’t worry, I’m definitely not one of those people. I firmly believe that everyone has the right to talk about Spain and share their opinions, even if they haven’t lived here. In fact, I find it enriching because there’s always something new to learn from different perspectives.
I also want to make sure that my previous comment wasn’t misunderstood. I’m not offended or feeling attacked at all. I simply wanted to clarify my position and avoid any potential misunderstandings. I know that in written communication, concepts can sometimes be interpreted differently than originally intended. I’m quite a relaxed person and rarely get upset, so everything’s good.
Regarding international investments (and I hope this settles the matter 😉), my intention was not to compare Southern Spain and Southern Italy as equals, especially in the context of the U.S. market. I completely understand that the Costa del Sol carries significant weight in global tourism and international investments. However, I wanted to highlight that, in Northern Europe, investment preferences can often differ. For instance, in the Netherlands, there’s considerable interest in the charming rural areas of Southern Spain. There are even TV programs that showcase how Dutch people buy, renovate, and revitalize properties in small Spanish villages. This shows that perspectives vary depending on the target audience.
By the way, your comment about me being an "exception" caught my attention (thank you for that, I’m flattered!). I truly value that someone as knowledgeable as you would take the time to engage in a discussion with me.
I’ve read some of your posts (though not all 1,000—I wish I had that much time! 😊), and I recognize that you bring a lot of value to the forum. Thank you for your contributions and for this interesting exchange.
Thanks again for your insights, and I look forward to continuing to exchange ideas with you in the future.
Montse
