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All Forum Posts by: Matthew W.

Matthew W. has started 7 posts and replied 28 times.

Quote from @Allan C.:

@Matthew W. I think you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. Forget about the past and figure out the present and future potential. At the moment you have negative cash flow, which isn't great. However, it doesn't mean you have negative return. You are paying down principal and that goes into your ROI calc.

You should focus on a return on equity formula, which uses the asset value less loan value as the denominator. The numerator will include your cash flow and principal pay down. If you think there’s good future appreciation potential, then that’s a reason to hold onto the property.

However, if you don't have reserves and are tight on cash flow, it's likely best to just sell and get into something that better suits your investment style. It seems you got lucky in the past, but unless you're willing to put a lot more time educating yourself it seems REI may be challenging for you.


I am not tight on reserves or cash, comically that is actually my  "problem" as it made me lazy.  This property has been so hands off I have not thought about in years like I should have and i do NOT have the time to educate myself to say the least (I run a company).  In theory I pay others for this, but my CPA has not said anything - he blindly fills out schedule Es and I blindly pay my taxes, nor did the FA i paid $2K to look at my stuff raise an alarm.  The only reason this came to light was I was looking to buy a different primary home and it got me looking at this!  So to your point I am ready to admit it might not be the best thing for me to have so much money plunked into. 

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

You're fine...you purchased a house for 335k and it's now worth 825k.  That's 7% return due to appreciation alone + mortgage pay down + any positive cash flow (the refinance is irrelevant...your residents have been paying down your debt).

Ignore the past.  Calculate your current ROE and assess it relative to other investment opportunities.

ROE = (cash flow + mortgage principal pay down + appreciation) / (value - current debt)

 That is after 22 years mind you.  So when I use that formula I get: .69

$2000 (on a more typical non loss year) + $381127 (principal remaining, 5/2050 mature date) + 470000 (~ appreciation) = 853,127
/
($850,000 (property value) - $381,127 (principal remaining)) = .69

That is what i get with that formula but I do not understand the differnce between "mortgage paydown and "debt" as aren't those the same thing? So far every formula I have used says its 1% or less return on this thing, so that equity would be making more in a high yield savings account.



I watched that video and it still was difficult to apply to my situation. I think the biggest issue is they all start with a "Cash invested" amount and I have no idea what mine is at this point so I am lost out the gate. What I could follow was that if the property is worth $850K and I owe $381k on the mortgage, and my cash flow is -$1773, then even when using his equity formula, I have about a -.00375 return on my investment. Seeing it that way, it is even worse than I thought. Considering I have had negative cash flow for years holding on to this thing looks to have been a terrible financial decision. The part I don't yet understand is that if I had a tenant paying my mortgage for me for years, and it ALSO gained equity, how I am so far off any ROI.

I think to really figure this out is I need to add up all my expenses paid for 20 years, (negative) then add in all my rent proceeds (positive) and then ADD the equity and that is my 20 year return.

@Nathan Gesner Thanks! This Rental is in Campbell, CA so another hot area. Bought for $335K, and worth $800-860K now. But I only command $3150 a month. I did do a cash out refi to get my Corte Madera home, which is its saving grace that makes me feel better) but on this rental now with my mortgage, property tax, HOA fees, and insurance my 2023 was negative. I do have about $400K in equity.

I really need to learn how to do this better.  Its just finding the time, but when a finance guy tells me to sell at this point I need to trust them.  I will watch this and see what i am coming up with. 

Every calculator has stuff that seems irrelevant or is not true to the situation.  My purchase price was over 20 years ago, I do not remember closing costs, have refinanced twice at least and I have been renting it for almost as long.  Lots of schedule Es I can not read or understand.

I obviously know my rent "income" and my costs (especially since I make NO positive cash flow money on it and mostly loose money (last year I lost "only" -$1175) so i want to know what i made in appreciation versus how much I lost per year for the past 20 years.  And how much opportunity cost i lost had I been in the market. At this point I will have pick up about $450K in appreciation after sales costs, but that is before taxes and I am in a high bracket.  Basically I want to know how much damage i did to myself for.....reasons. 

How does one calculate this?   I know I should not have counted on appreciation and I think I been loosing money on it for a very very long time, but I had other things to attend to.  I know, I know, first world problems for sure but I loath the thought of the hassle of selling but its time.
(RE certainly did NOT make me rich as I had hoped and now I am ready to sell 2 rentals and retire sooner than later)

Quote from @Logan Ransley:

Hey Matthew, fantastic and in-depth constructive feedback about our product. I've shared it with our product team. Also interesting feedback about the name "Landlord Studio" – quite a difficuilt one for us to solve!

Logan Ransley
Co-Founder of Landlord Studio

Yeah no worries Logan lol, I had no idea you guys read this stuff! In hindsight I wish I would have put things into more of a pro and con list as it would be easier for readers, but understand it was just kind of brain dump as I was just doing my tax records so it was fresh on my mind.

I currently use your software and plan to continue to do so in 2024, this time with a plan on doing more monthly reconciliation to avoid some of the "end of year" issues I had and mentioned. I tried to point out the fact that my issues are just that - MY issues, and to a bookkeeper or pro - which I am far from - things probably make more sense. But for sure, reach out for more specifics if you wish.

I also suspect (as a software guy myself) you may be using a SAAS application you license and so are held up on configuration in your own frustrating ways from that perspective. I could be wrong there, but regardless I know developer pain when hands are tied.

Anyway keep up the good work, like I siad you won out over many hours of "research" on what to proceed with, so I am looking forward to any improvements and as I've already mentioned, your CSR team is actually amazing considering this day and age so take them out for lunch. :-)

 

Quote from @Kelly O'Keefe:

@Matthew W.

Thanks for the break down, it is really helpful. Can I ask what you are using the systems for? For example, are you using the lease agreement features, or using it to collect and schedule payments or just to track your portfolio?


I use it for all my property accounting/ reporting, and to collect rent and owed payments. It syncs with my bank and CC of course.  For instance I had a special case where I billed the tenant an extra expense monthly on top of the automated rent collection, so I add it as an expense and it would automatically email them and notify me when it was late of course.

I did not use the lease feature, listing features, or background check yet as those were already in place when I signed up but for sure I wanted an all-in-one package for when I do need them in the future. I also automatically reminds you when lease is set to expire.

Oh, I also forgot to mention another fantastic and key feature of Landlord studio is the ability to set up bank rules which is awesome. These will auto-categorize transactions for you and saves a lot of time.  Stessa does not have this so you must manually reconcile each one.   You can see how its hard to decide on these 2 apps.

And after moving from excel, I also used rentredi, quickbook, avail, zillow rental manager, and a few others i cant remember.  But in the end for me its a toss up between these two. 

Post: A true software that "Does it all"?

Matthew W.Posted
  • Posts 28
  • Votes 12
Hi, I just posted a wall of text comparing stessa and landlord studio (check my post history).  You may consider Landlord studio and love it - you can read my criticisms there. However it does all you are looking for.

Excel is not useful for collection rent and automating things like leases and credit checks all in one pace that is for sure.

But for simple accounting in excel you can add automation to Excel using Tiller.  It will connect excel to your bank accounts and auto categorize for you, its pretty neat service ($79)


Hello. Because I am indecisive, like software, and want to at least give every platform a chance I have tried MANY software for my 2 condos (and once Airbnb). Most were not great. I am embarrassed to admit how much time I have spend on these and I only have “2 doors”

But I can say I used both Stessa and Landlord studio a lot so can actually be helpful here.

Both are good compared to all the others (e.g. Avail), but Landlord studio is frankly not as intuitive or user friendly. Keep in mind this is what I am USING currently so that tells you about my experience with the other “apps”.

Anyway, I have used it for a year and I am constantly met with quirks and roadblocks. The customer service is awesome though and when they explain why I am having issues, it usually makes sense, but these types of things just aren’t an issue with Stessa. For instance, many categories you might want to file transactions are missing. These are there in Stessa as expected. So you must add them manually in LS. And in the LS background there are all sorts of validations on what you are trying to do, so it just gets frustrating. In short its hard to override things. For instance I got a lot of my rental payment upfront, (a large cash inflow as a payment type) but I cant apply/reconcile it as category “rent” because I already marked the month’s rent as paid – just one quick example. So it sits there in purgatory. I can admit there are likely good reasons for these validations and restrictions for Property management professionals and accounting gurus, but for a small time landlord like myself they come across as annoying.

The price is right and the reports are awesome though. And the customer service is super fast and helpful, although I should also mention you are often just sent a wall of text to read. I get it, but I really wish it was more intuitive from the start. They also have a much more modern look to the software and they have a good Mobile app geared specifically for tenants. SO this could be a huge selling point for some. (None of my 2 tenants used it so cant comment on that). Another thing is a small detail like who pays the ACH fee can be a choice to go to you or tenant. I appreciate things like that and as I said I use it currently but also begrudgingly.

Anyway, Stessa is everything I want mostly (now as they have added desperately missing features the past year), but also more expensive for some reason. I think LS is a small business whereas Stessa is a large corporation (roofstock corp).

That extra cost is not so much the issue though. The reconciliation of transactions is super fast and easy. The tenant and lease set up is way easier and intuitive in Stessa. It’s true nail in the coffin is they FORCE you to open up checking accounts under some bank I never heard called “thread” in order to collect rent. NO THANKS. So they advertise later they will have quick rent payments but I don’t bank with “Thread.” I bank with Chase. So this would require me to manually log in to transfer money to my actual bank anyway for distributions or to receive funds for improvements or whatever. And I can’t link a debit card from that bank. If you can there is no mention. And worse, this bank does not even accept Zelle. I mean what respectable bank does not accept zelle payments? Finally, the Stessa Cash Management Accounts FAQ page is suspiciously lacking in mention around fees. So as a previously burned person in bait and switches am simply assuming that when you don’t talk about fees and you list all these “things” you can do, you are hiding fees later. Sorry, call me cynical there.

Like I said, I am trying to simplify my life, so opening up yet more bank accounts when I already have a trusted rental business account with chase for a small timer like me is not territory I want wade in. If Stessa let me link and use my own bank I would very likely choose them over LS even given the extra cost to get over the frustrations I have with LS.

Oh one more thing and this is subjective.... Where I live, the word "Landlord" is a dirty word.  Sad but true.  I do not even think I am being sensitive around this.  So telling my tenant to pay, get emails from, and use an app called "LANDLORD studio" does make me feel uncomfortable to some degree as it makes it sound more like a 1 sided transaction.  "I am your landlord, pay me."

Stessa does have a much friendlier sound to it, almost cute. 

Anyway, that is my take. Hope it helps.