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All Forum Posts by: Bobby Narinov

Bobby Narinov has started 27 posts and replied 132 times.

Post: How I got dumped by the Company that manages my property

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

@Eric C. I don't think they did anything that is 100% wrong during the tenant selection process. I am trying crucify them because they did something that is out of their control. The problem that I have with them is that after I asked them to no longer offer move-in discounts, they decided to kick me to the curb. That is what is inexcusable here.

Property management companies are a lot like like Insurance companies. When everything is perfect you may think you have an excellent partner but you can only see their true face when things go bad. Then you will see if they will help you stand up or kick you while you are on the ground. And up until now everything was great.

Up until now ... 

Bad tenants are part of doing business and it is always better to have a no tenant then to have a bad tenant. A bad tenant can cause you $100,000+ of damage and no amount of security deposit can save you from that. But there are certain ways to lower your chances of getting stuck with a really bad one.

For example: an applicant that is willing to pay you maximum deposit (2 months for California), plus prorated rent till the end of the month plus a full rent for the next month (all cash) and wants to move in tonight may be a great tenant but chances are that they are been evicted by their current landlord. The money they are giving you are saved only because they didn't pay rent for the last 6 months, sold all appliances, water heater, garbage disposer and the toilet bawl, didn't pay their utility bills for a big portion of their stay and managed to squeeze additional $2,000.00 as cash-for-keys from their last landlord. Good tenants are difficult to find and they know their value, they are not going to offer you something they don't have if they really have nothing to hide.

Post: How I got dumped by the Company that manages my property

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

@Nathan Gesner you glossed over the thread. the $10,000.00 profit is over 2.5 years (28 months). 

Post: How I got dumped by the Company that manages my property

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

@Russell Brazil I do expect a lot of bad tenants at this price point. This is the price where the majority of the professional tenants come at. That is why you do a better screening and you definitely not let them in with only 1.5 months of payment. A professional tenant knows that it will take you several months to evict them so living 1.5 months for free and sticking the owner with the utility bills is a great deal for them. I have 27 units with that level of tenants. People that cannot come up with two months of rent to pay their move-in costs always have problems paying their rent. Offering them an upfront incentive backfires [almost] every time.

Post: How I got dumped by the Company that manages my property

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

@Caleb Heimsoth there are no perfect people. Could I have handled the things better: Yes I could. I am always open to see the other side view and discuss it. But in this case the other side refused to talk. Maybe they are not used to any confrontation and even the slightest one is triggering them. I never questioned the amount of money they are making from me so I do not see the relevance of how much money they help me make. To me their response felt like: "You greedy XoX, we helped you make 10%+ ROI so shut up and let us manage your place whatever way we want to. You are not competent enough to have any input anyways". I tried to clarify that in my second email but there is always a possibility for misunderstanding.

@Patrick Liska I do understand that a person with more properties is more valuable than a single property person. But if you don't care about your single property owners, just stop wasting your time and their time and put a minimum of 5 properties requirement (or whatever other arbitrary number you want). A good professional company will try to give all of their customers the best service they can despite their size. Based on your comments above, it looks to me that you are advocating for bad service for everyone but the multiple property owners. About the ROIs, my point was exactly that: you cannot quote one without knowing all the facts. Guesstimating ROI is a sign of unprofessional-ism.

Post: Inherited tenant at will

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

When I purchase a new property, I always switch the tenants to my lease. To grease the deal I usually give them a better deal that they had before me, like a $25/month lower lease than what they had before. I have never had a tenant not eager to jump on the lower rent lease.

The reason I do that is because I do not know how good the previous lease is and if, god forbid, I have to evict them, I do need to provide a copy of the lease to the courts. 

It also clears any misunderstanding about who pays what.

When you have multiple tenants with different type of leases to deal with, you quickly realize that the more uniform your leases are, the easier is to manage your tenants.

Post: How I got dumped by the Company that manages my property

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

Here is the actual calculation for my ROI based on the numbers Zzz Realty conveniently decide to ignore:

Date Start 08/01/16

Date End 12/31/18

Num Months 28

Purchase Price $55,997.00

Closing Cost $ 2,125.61

Actual Cost $58,122.61

Income (as per Zzz Realty) $13,944.26

Insurance/year $ 621.00

Insurance/Month $ 51.75

Insurance for period $ 1,449.00

Maintenance Total $ 1,413.77

Eviction total $ 527.50

Unpaid tenant bills $ 339.48

Total Expenses $ 3,729.75

Total Income $10,214.51

ROI as per Zzz Realty 10.28%

Actual ROI 7.53%

ROI Diff 26.75%

A 26.75% difference between their calculation and mine. I would say, this is not a rounding error.

In the above I am not including the additional $300, I was asked to pay so they can get my property in a rent-able condition. Because I don't know how long it would have taken them, I am not including the vacancy time for repairs and finding a new tenant. Last time it took them more than a month but we know how great that tenant was. Also, I expect to have some additional unpaid utility bills that I have to cover (the city of Toledo OH is extremely landlord unfriendly), like I had to do when the previous tenant moved out. If I have to account for all those things, the ROI would drop to 6.75% per year and even lower.

Post: How I got dumped by the Company that manages my property

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

@Patrick Liska If they knew my numbers better than me, they would have given me a number significantly lower ROI. The fact that they didn't can be explained by one of three reasons:

  1. They are liars and bad persons in general
  2. They are incompetent
  3. They are misinformed
  4. All of the above

I decided that they are just misinformed because all other options are extremely bad. But I am inclined to believe you that they know all that stuff which means they are incompetent, liars or both.

Post: How I got dumped by the Company that manages my property

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

@Dick Stevens i do buy local. Aside from this property I have 10 other properties (34 doors) that I manage myself in my spare time (I have a full time very demanding day time job). This one is a 4 years experiment that includes bad property management companies galore. At leas this last one was not investigated by the FBI like my previous one. See my other posts about that saga.

Well I guess, when you get too big, you forget what made you successful and you start messing up the smaller investors.  And it is all downhill from here on.

Post: How I got dumped by the Company that manages my property

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

Have you ever been ditched by your Property Management Company because the tenant they put in your property never paid a dime above their move in cost and you dared to question their tenant selection criteria?

One measurement that most of the management companies are bragging about is their low vacancy rate. The lower their vacancy rate is, the higher their income is. The smart investors are looking for a Property Management company with low vacancy rate but no management company tells you how they are actually calculating it. And there are a lot of ways to bend the truth. 

An excellent way to keep that rate low is to put anyone that can fog a mirror in as fast as they can. And to speed up that process, offer them a move-in special of 50% off their first month rent. The owner pays for any specials offered and they can start charging management fees immediately.  Unfortunately this creates an incentive for some "professional tenants" to pay 1.5 months rent and stay in your property for 3+ months. That is 1.5+ months of free rent for the tenant. Meanwhile you, the owner, are stuck with no income, eviction expenses, lawyer fees, maintenance and repairs, taxes, insurance, loan payment, city code violation fees and vacancies. If the owner complains, you the management company dumps you immediately, unless they manage more than one or your properties. But if you have only one, it is best for them to get rid of you. And this is exactly what happened to me.

The industry's dirty little secret is getting rid of all owners for which you have high vacancies due to bad management and/or bad tenant screening. Doing it early and doing it often, will allow advertising low vacancies rates and lower their expenses because finding new tenants is too much time consuming.  And this is something no one is talking about.

Not having to deal with complaining owners permits them to have more properties with owners/tenants that never complain or question your methods. This works for as long as they have more owners asking them to manage their properties. And if they have a high profile they would never run out of sucker.

Have you had any similar experience, please comment below.

Here is the email exchange that led to getting me dumped by my property management company (Zzz is not their real name. I have replaced/removed the names of the actual company/people names because they are big on BP and I don't want to get my post censured and/or removed. Everything else is copied verbatim):

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 1:41 PM Support Zzz Realty wrote:

Hi Borislav,

Your previous statement is available to you on your owner portal under the documents tab.

As property management we can and occasionally do run move in specials - which is not uncommon and is often times first months free.

Without a move in special a tenant would be required to pay a full months rent plus deposit if moving in on the first of the month.

If they are moving in between the 1st and the 15th they are required to pay pro-rate plus deposit (no move in special).

If they move in between the 16th and the end of the month they are required to pay pro-rate, plus full following month, plus deposit (No move in special).

During times of cooler weather or historically slow months in terms of leasing, move-in specials are used as a means to place a tenant quicker without lagging in the pre-qualification area.

During slowing months if we don’t run a move in special - it could increase vacancy time immensely - especially during the colder months.

As has been explained to you before we have a very extensive application process for ALL tenants.

Bad tenants are a known risk to owning rental properties no matter who places the tenants.

It is very easy to look to your property management company for blame and if this is the way that you feel I do apologize and assure you that we do everything in our power to place good quality tenants that will stay and pay - but there is no way to guarantee that … nobody can.

If you choose, you may indeed take your business else where but we value you as an investor and would very much prefer you to trust us so that we can continue to manage your property.

Every choice made in this office is made with the best interest of our investors at the front of mind.

Your net income since August of 2016 is $13,944.26 based on the sales price of $55,997 that puts you at a 10% ROI year after year.

We started managing your property at that time and had a tenant placed in September or 2016.

That tenant paid on time for the majority of his tenancy and resided in the property for 2 years and the property needed minimal work before being re-tenanted in October.

The tenant was indeed a bad tenant - however, as explained this is a risk with rental properties and was not due to lack of research and diligence on our end.

There is also very minimal work needed to get the unit ready to re-rent as has been explained to you in a separate email and this will be covered by the deposit as well.

I do hope this answers all of your questions but if you do have any other questions, please let me know.

Thank you and have a wonderful day,

Zzz

On Jan 3, 2019, at 6:13 PM, Borislav wrote:

Thank you for the documents.

in the future, please do not offer 1/2 of the first month off on my properties.

If you want to have a special, give them 1/2 month off on the last month of their lease or drop the rent price.by 5%. Anything but let people in with less that 2 months of rent. If they cannot save for 1 month rent and full deposit, then they would have problems paying rent when something unexpected happens.

And for god sake do not tell me what is my return on investment because first, this is unprofessional and second you have no idea of what my expenses are. you are forgetting small things like, taxes, insurance, maintenance, evictions, code compliance penalties, vacancies, interest on the loan, etc.

Borislav

The Owner

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 8:45 AM Support Zzz Realty wrote:

Hi Borislav -

We are very disappointed with your email below.

Our staff works very hard and we are dedicated to providing the best service possible to our investors.

We strive to maintain a professional and respectful relationship with all of our investors and do expect the same thing in return.

As your property management company your cashflow is of great importance to us.

We do apologize that you feel we have been unprofessional in any way as that was not our intention.

It is quite obvious that you don’t trust us and do not like that way that we manage your property despite the fact that you have had very little vacancy time in the 2.5 years we have been managing your property. (We began management in August of 2016 and placed a tenant in September of the same year. That tenant was a good tenant for 2 years. The turn was minimal and a new tenant was placed in the same month as the previous one vacated).

As much as we’d like to continue managing your property we feel it is best to allow this to be your 30 day notice.

Please take this time to find a new company to manage your property.

We will be closing out your account as of February 4, 2019.

Once you find a new property manager, we would be more than happy to provide them keys to your property as well as tenant information if there is a new tenant at that time.

We appreciate the business relationship that we have had and do wish you success and luck in all of your future endeavors.

We have done our best to provide you with the best service possible and feel like we have exceeded expectations.

It is very unfortunate that we have lost your trust somewhere throughout the way.

Please let us know if you have any questions or needs in the mean time.

Thank you and have a wonderful day,

Zzz

Post: Is the BiggerPockets censuring gone too far

Bobby NarinovPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Trabuco Canyon, CA
  • Posts 134
  • Votes 78

I am pretty much sure this discussion is going to be killed by our overlords here in BiggerPockets due to its controversial nature.

I used to like BiggerPockets. I used to log in regularly and comment on posts whenever I can.

I also used to ask a lot of questions and start discussions. Some of them went over 100 comments within hours.

But then, I got slapped on the wrist. One of my most successful discussions was shut down because I dared to mentioned the race of the 4 gangsters that performed an armed kidnapping of one my tenants. The discussion got a lot of likes but that was not good for the moderator. There was not a single person offended by it (except the moderator). Everyone took the post for what it was: a genuine question that needed some help from the community. Somehow the moderator saw it as a racist post and decided to kill the whole discussion. "The first sentence, 'four xxx barged in...' is extremely offensive. I can change it to four people, and reload the thread, but I will not have this sort of comment on MY SITE.". Wow. I though this site is a community build site.

This is going overboard with censoring. I don't even care about racial or other prejudices, I am a minority member myself. Not only that but a 100% of my tenants can claim one or more protected classes but for some reason my post was tagged as racist's.

It took several days to figure out what is going on and try to resurrect the discussion by modifying the post by removing all gender and racial characteristics of the people involved. I didn't care about my own efforts but there were over 100 comments where people honestly try to give advice, all of them wasted because of overzealous moderator.

This completely ruined my desire to be active on BiggerPockets.

It has been a year since that incident and I am trying to get back here but somehow the feeling is not the same. I no longer want to post here anymore because i fear my posts will be deleted because they do not please our overlords. I know that everything posted here is BiggerPockets property and this makes me post even less.

Until this post is removed, feel free to share your experience with censoring gone overboard here.

P.S. please do not comment if your income is heavily dependent on BiggerPockets because your account may be suspended.