All Forum Posts by: Ryan H

@Lars Henrik, Basically the RE lawyer told me in 15 minutes basically what I already knew but added a few important nuggets of info.

1. Good luck proving they are trespassing. Calling the cops isn't going to do much even if they do roll out to the property. The previous tenants just have to dangle their keys and show a utility bill in their name and that's it.

2. Send a 3-day notice to vacate ASAP to begin the eviction process.

3. Here's a nice one he mentioned: To recover attorney's fees in an eviction suit, a landlord must give a tenant who is unlawfully retaining possession of the landlord's premises a written demand to vacate the premises. The demand must state that if the tenant does not vacate the premises before the 11th day after the date of receipt of the notice and if the landlord files suit, the landlord may recover attorney's fees. The demand must be sent by registered mail or by certified mail, return receipt requested, at least 10 days before the date the suit is filed.

4. On top of that one... I could also claim the back rent due they haven't paid to the previous landlord.

Here is where we are today.... I was in the "Let's make the best of this situation" camp a few days ago.  Now all I have experienced is back tracking and general delay tactics.

We agreed they would pay May rent and then vacate on June 1. Once the internet payment request was sent they said they never got it. We reconfirmed emails and I sent them photos of my screen showing it had been sent to the email they gave me.

Then they claimed the house was not fit to live in and needed to be fixed.  REALLY?  It has been fine for 2 years and NOW it is not.

Then is was "We will pay but only half the rent because the place has a main line water leak the previous landlord never fixed because her husband died and they could not afford to fix it so our water bill is very high and  we have paid the outstanding $4,000 balance down to $1,000 but you need to fix this."  Big warning alarms going off on that one.

So based on that conversation I may have a water lien about to be filed against the place and I have grounds for violation of the disclosure agreement which I could use to reverse the sale or suit for the cost of the repair of the water line if I file suit against the seller in the next few days.

Then it was "The previous landlord told us it was fine to say here and not pay rent to watch over the place against vandalism so we really should not have to pay rent. We are protecting the place and helping you out."

Everyone still with me on this?!?!?

@Jorge Ruiz I have never done a RE transaction where there was so little communication about what was going on around the time of closing. I signed and Fedex'd the docs a couple of Thursdays ago, they should have got in on Friday. I heard nothing more than a voicemail saying literally "Just calling to let you know the file is funded." on Tuesday.  Expecting a follow-up call saying the file has closed and the deed is being recorded today/tomorrow is what I use  to pull the trigger on locks/rehab/etc. I finally called again on Thursday and that's when I found out it had already closed two days ago. And that's when the fireworks started.

@Jorge Ruiz Believe me, I had getting the locks changed all ready to go. The problem was I never received confirmation from the title company of the closing date until 2 days after it had already occurred. By then, they had already moved back in.  Plus, the seller was to leave the keys with the title company at closing but did not so I did not have them in my agents hands until Friday morning.

Since Friday I now know the following:

1. The previous owner never issued or executed a written lease with the tenants. This answers a number of the other posters questions of "Why didn't the owner provide X-Y-Z documents?"

2. The tenants were Section 8 while in the rental until recently when they no longer qualified.  Once they did not qualify, the rent checks stopped sometime in January.  The previous owner never filed an eviction but instead gave them verbal notice to vacate in late Feb and again in early March and again in late March to vacate by April 1st (the original closing date). The tenants agreed to vacate and did begin moving their items into self storage.

3. The owner inspected the unit on Sunday and found a few items still there along with the tenants. They were once again told they must be out by Tuesday.

So.... The "let's try to make this work out for everyone"idea is out the window.

From what I researched on Texas RE law, there is a lease effectively, even though it is not written because the tenants had been paying the landlord rent for a number of months.  The lease is seen as a month to month lease and the lease was broken once the rent was no longer being paid.

I am unclear if the verbal lease would transfer upon sale but I am expecting that it does even though it has already been broken.  Speaking to a RE Lawyer tomorrow about all of this mess.

Tomorrow I should find out for sure if this is a trespassing issue or an eviction. I suspect it is an eviction.

@Paul Bojinov Thanks for the perspective.

I am not flipping this property. I am BRRRRing it... just not in the regular order.

"If they sign you'll be getting after rehab rent without spending a dollar."

BINGO

Anyone ever read "If You Give a Pig a Pancake" or "If You Give a Cat a Cupcake" or "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" etc. ? 

I have... 

...about 50 times each.

While those stories go on and on about how people (fictitious animals) keep taking if you keep giving, what they don't cover is once you stop... you stop.

Basically the future problems are now.

I have a property that I was planning on rehabbing and renting out.

It currently has the previous renters of two years inside.

They want to pay and stay for another month until school ends for the kids and then get out or stay and pay the market rent.

If they don't pass the rental application process, they are out. And here comes to Po-Po.

If they do, then I am cashflowing on day one which was not originally planned based on the contract stating the property will be delivered unoccupied. I would suspect a fair few of you would not mind having a turn key property on your hands with plenty of upside value add still available in it on day one.

I do agree with the comments about how the moral aspect of the renters is questionable at best, for now, I am thinking about the best mutually beneficial arrangements for both parties.

BTW: One other detail... my cash invested will be covered in 5 years if the current renters stay and I don't raise the rent. A owner financed note comes to mind.

First of all... thanks to everyone who took time out of their day to respond to this post.

Second... as with most post... you can only provide some much of the details before it gets to be a bore.  So here are a few more facts that impact the case and some of the responses.

1. The property is in Texas. A landlord friendly state, depending on who you ask.

2. I am not in Texas currently.

3. I have lots of family who are in the the city of this property and have been checking on it for me.

4. The title company did not inform me when the property was going to close/had closed.  I called them and found out it closed two days later. It was locked up in probate for two months.

5. The seller confirmed the tenants had vacated prior to closing.  I did not because I never received a confirmed closing date until after the fact.

6. As soon as I found out the property closed, I arranged to get keys to have the locks changed. that's is when we found the tenants back inside.

For now, the approach is "fair but firm."

I am a little surprised how many people are totally fine with having a grandmother and three grand kids removed by the cops and slapped with a criminal charge.

@Colleen F. What you suggested is what I have done/am doing currently.  They know they are in violation and I have reminded them of that. 

As expected, there seems to be two camps here.  While I do agree that the trespassing/eviction is the sure fire solution, it also is why some landlords can get a bad reputation.  I would rather try to work something out first then come into the neighborhood with an iron boot to kick them to the curb.

@Jerry Robinson - Yeah, that is my plan. They have rented there for two years already. I am sending them my rental application and if they are someone I would rent to normally and everything checks out, I am going to get them on a month to month ASAP. They said they are going on vacation back home to visit family the month of July while the kids are out of school. I might do a quick turn over and spruce the place up a bit while they are away. I need to get the place bank appraisal/financing ready so I can pull my cash back out. I guess this would be the BRRRR strategy but in the wrong order. Buy - Rent - Rehab - Refinance - Repeat