All Forum Posts by: Leilah Davis

One last question for those who cross-check their lists against the DNC list .... what did you register as with the FTC??? Based on the definitions here (https://telemarketing.donotcal...) it doesn't seem like any of the "organization" types they list (sellers, telemarketers, or service providers) apply for my situation, nor do any of the "exempt" organization types.

@Julie Williams yeah definitely! I learned that in my licensing class as well. Real estate agents calling for the purpose of getting listings or buyer clients would most certainly fall in the category of "telemarketers" since they are actively trying to sell their services as an agent. 

I'm still not 100% convinced that the law actually covers individual people calling to buy something rather than sell something (harkening back to my car analogy from my firts post) ... but multiple people above have given examples of situations in which any cold callers, whether they are telemarketers or not, have gotten or could get sued. A few people also made the note that it's best to just err on the side of caution, and I agree with that for sure!

@Jay Hinrichs haha, yes! Been following you on here for awhile. I think you commented on one of my first BP posts and gave me some fantastic advice as well. 

That is exactly what we look for, infill lots! Except you've been doing it since the 90's and we started with our first house in 2020 in the middle of a pandemic, LOL. That's also my strategy exactly for locating the target properties ... with the added help of modern technology of course: I have a data base of the properties we're interested. I pulled them from the tax assessor's website, just going one by one through each parcel to locate and identify the vacant lots. Then I gather contact info from White Pages (now with the added step of scrubbing the list against the DNC list). My first method of contact is usually text or phone call, and if I don't get a response then I send a mailer. 

I have to work up the courage to really try door knocking. Especially as a female, doing it alone, in a city that can be somewhat dangerous. My fears are probably illogical and I should just get over it. Just gotta work up that chutzpah!! I've knocked on someone's door just once so far - the lot we bought most recently was purchased through tax sale, so in order to get standard title insurance we needed a quitclaim deed from the owners who had lost their property in 1996. It was a divorced couple, but the woman was local. I knocked on her door and asked nicely. She not only agreed to sign the quitclaim deed, but also gave my her ex-husband's contact info and helped me get in touch with him to sign as well!!. It worked out well, so I really should give door knocking more of a shot. 

Feel free to share that "secret tip" with me via DM if want to, haha! And if not, no worries :)

@Joe Splitrock ok thanks for the info! And yes, that's exactly when & how I do cold-calling and cold-texting, to target very specific properties that meet our criteria.

Not all sellers are in a rush to sell their properties, but that doesn't necessarily mean they won't sell or aren't open to the idea of selling. I have communicated with quite a few vacant lot owner who were not actively on the internet looking for buyers, but were happy enough to hear an offer when I reached out. So it does happen! The last lot we purchased was a good example of this - The guy bought it at a tax auction thinking that he would eventually build on it. 5 years went by and he still hadn't done anything with it, so when I texted him an offer that was good for us and netted him a decent profit he was happy to accept. 

In each niche area we are interested in, there's roughly 100 - 200 vacant lots and only 2 or 3 lots on the market (and the ones that are listed are way overpriced, and all of them sit on the market for awhile). There are probably less than 1,000 total properties that fit our current criteria. I get what you and others have said about SEO tools, and it sounds like a great concept for wholesalers or investers with large porfolio's, but I do worry that for me, with such a small niche market and with so few properties that fit our criteria, I'd be spinning my wheels a little if I tried to do lead gen that way. Not sure though, as I've never tried it and don't know much about it!

(Also @Jerryll Noorden decided off the bat that I was a "douchebag" who "doesn't care how many people I bother as long as I can make a dollar" ... which is a pretty pointed accusation. He made it very obvious that he thinks very little of me and that I'm not worth his time, so I doubt he has any interest in jumping into this conversation. If I'm wrong, feel free to respond. I am all ears and genuinely interested in the SEO stuff. PS - There's a big difference between "sugar-coating" something and just being a kind human who treats others with respect. If there was something in my initial message to you that set you off, I apologize. Text can be difficult to interpret I truly meant no harm and came here only for a discussion.)

@Account Closed haha fair enough!

@Joe Splitrock thanks for the reply and the input! Everything you said makes a lot of sense. And I agree, bad actors can give others a bad name. I've seen that in many different areas of real estate investing, unfortunately. Well, I've definitely been convined at this point to scrub my list against the DNC, so you won't be finding any arguments against that point from me! And thank you for saying that I don't seem like a "bad actor" here, I am genuinely trying to do the right thing. 

Seems like this conversation changed from being about the DNC list to being about cold-calling in general. To be clear ... cold calling isn't illegal right?? It's only illegal if the person is listed on the DNC list?? If this is just a question of ethics, and we're no longer talking about legality (now that multiple people have actually explained the legal stuff instead of just saying "look it up"), then I have to admit I am still having a hard time seeing what I'm doing as unethical ... given that I am seeking vacant lots only, not harrassing anyone, and trying my best to help revitalize some of the neighgborhoods around where I live. Not saying I'm Mother Theresa, of course it is a business and I'm trying to make money, but revitalizing neighborhoods and putting vacant lots to good use is important to me! That's the end goal here.  

Definitely interested to learn more about ALL the various methods that people use for acquiring properties. What are your thoughts on bandit signs, since those are also illegal? And what about direct mail marketing? Personally I get more annoyed about direct mail marketing than I do about a randomn phone call, haha, but it seems like I'm alone in that camp. Any additional suggestions on methods for contacting people or finding sellers would be great!! Thanks again :) 

@Ben Zimmerman all really good advice, thank you!!! I will definitely look into creating a website and researching the SEO stuff a bit more. 

I really have not done much cold calling yet. It's something I've only recently started exploring (been doing it less than 1 month) as another method for finding lots. But to answer your question, no I haven't landed a deal that way (yet). I have had a lot of great conversations with locals, neighbors, and even other builders & investors though! I have done a bit more cold-texting than cold-calling (but same thing, ethically speaking, right?) and that's how we got our most recent deal. My response rate on texts is like 10%. 

If I know I'm calling or texting an investor or builder, I honestly don't don't even mention the reason I'm calling off the bat. I usually call (or text) to just say hi, introduce myself as another  builder / investor in the area, and connect. It's more like networking than anything else ... Very recently I had a call like this with another builder, and when I eventually brought up the lot he owns that I was looking at he very graciously told me all about his plans to build there, and I listened intently and congratulated him on his plans, and then he said "you know what? I actually have another lot that I'm not doing anything with. Do you want to take a look at it?" That lot didn't end up working out for us, but that easily could have helped us land our next deal! I think it's a bit different since I'm mostly calling other New Orleanians like myself. I'm really not calling people up from out of state. It feels to me like calling is just more personal, and I can get people to open up more on the phone than through text ... but you're right, for those who are receiving TONS of cold calls, this doesn't seem like a good way to go about it. 

Also, to clarify, since you referred to wholesalers and buying houses a lot ... I'm not a wholesaler and I don't buy houses. I am a spec home builder. We buy vacant lots and build new construction homes, ground up only. I'm not looking for "distressed" properties or "tired landlords". Just vacant lots! I think this may also be part of the reason I generally get better responses from cold calling or texting than some others. Owning vacant land in downtown new Orleans is not an "investment" unless they actually build on the property or sell it to someone like me for a profit. Some people respond that they have "plans" to build, but I find that a large percentage of the people I'm calling / texting have had "plans" to build for over 10 years .... my goal is to just keep these leads warm so that when they are ready to let go of the property they think of me first.

Part of the issue with the idea of "casting a wide net" is that we have pretty specific neighborhoods and criteriafor what will work with our business model. So I'm definitely NOT blasting out 100,000 texts or calling hundreds of people at random and hoping to get responses, and annoying 99,000 people in the process! I really do a LOT of research on the vacant lot owners in our niche area, and I do take special attention and care to try to reach out to people in ways that won't be bothersome. 

You're right, though, spending this amount of time gathering all the data, researching the property owners, and communicating with potential sellers IS extremely exhausting, haha. I have been trying to figure out more efficient ways of going about it. I will definitely explore some more ways to let people find me instead!! Thanks again :) 

@Account Closed Thanks, that's great input!! I don't do wholesaling, and I agree it's somewhat questionable. It's not really my bag. I do spec homes and having a hard time finding lots. There are so many lots in my city, and I see other builders buying them at a steep discount from fair market value. Wish I could figure out their methods, haha!

@Account Closed - thanks for that info, that is super helpful!!! Not trying to "die on this hill" at all. I came to this thread wanting to ask genuine questions and trying to engage in a genuine discussion about this topic, because I am trying to learn.

@jerryll's initial response and subsequent responses were extremely rude AND unhelpful. I started by asking for more clarity on his post from a year ago (I guess I had no way of knowing that i was "poking the bear") and he immediately responded with accusations that I am a monster who doesn't give two ***** about bothering people ... I actually care a LOT about ensuring that I'm going about property acquisitions the right way and NOT bothering people / being as helpful to people as possible .... which is why I came to this thread. But instead of anyone saying anything helpful, I just get called a douchebag for even THINKING about it. 

I totally understand why some people get annoyed about cold callers. It's definitely a legitimate concern, especially for those who own a lot of property and are getting calls like this regularly. My "riled up" comment was specifically directed towards @Jerryll Noorden for responding to my initial post and comments so aggressively. It had nothing to do with anyone's opinions on cold calling or how annoying it can be, I totally respect that some people really hate receiving cold calls! That's totally fair!! And again, that's sort of why I came to this thread, as I wanted to hear various opinions. 

Anyway, thank you @Account Closed for the info on the legality of it & the potential law suits. That is helpful! @Ben Zimmerman, while I don't really appreciate the "people like you" comment or the "you're being an a$$hole" comment, I do appreciate the input and your thoughts and opinions about this. Thanks!! 

So given all this info (and again, these are genuine questions - I am not trying to goad anyone here, I am genuinely asking for perspectives on this) - how do you acquire property? Do you skip cold-calling altogether, or do you just scrub your lists against the DNC? I'd imagine you'd have a much harder time finding property without cold-calling or cold texting at all. If you really think investors should just not cold-call at all, I would love some guidance or opinions on what to do instead. 

Thanks!

@Jerryll Noorden LOL ok ... everything you're saying is an opinion. Just saying "it is a fact" doesn't make it so. 

As I said earlier the law is written with very unclear language. Every law is subject to interpretation, whether you like it or not. It's literally called Statutory Interpretation (If you don't beleive me, look it up!) There is also such a thing as precedent. If a law is written unclearly or doesn't clearly cover a specific situation, it usually ends up in a court of law at one point or another, and once a judge determines a ruling, that becomes precedent for future cases (that's why it matters if anyone has gotten into legal trouble over this before). Having that info would help to determine whether or not it is ACTUALLY considered illegal in a court of law (not by some random guy on a bigger pockets forum.) Does that help to clarify??? 

Just because you interpret the activity I'm describing as illegal, doesn't make it "fact". Unless, of course, you have moonlighted as a judge or an FTC commissioner and have presided over a case specififically about this precise situation???? 

The FTC enforces CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS. The most basic way of looking at this is that they serve to protect consumers from misleading advertising, scams, etc. Every single resource on the FTC website refers to the people on the DNC list as "consumers" and the people required to follow those rules as "telemarketers" or "sellers". I am not a telemarketer because I am not marketing anything. I am not a seller because I am not selling anything. The person who's property I am trying to BUY is obviously not a consumer in this scenario. 

Instead of just repeating yourself with statements like "it is illegal" and "look it up" and "it's a fact" why don't you try supporting your argument with evidence?? 

@Jerryll Noorden - WOW, didn't mean to rile you up!!! If you're "not looking nor providing an opinion" ... you really did not need to respond at all. Apologies for @'ing you.  

Since sharing opinions is the entire point of these forums, I'm going to share MY opinion below in the hopes of having a genuine, civil, adult discussion with some other folks who might want to chime in. Feel free to ignore!

I'm a rule-follower by nature, but unfortunately the law is written with language that is extremely unclear. I also have no interest in "annoying the living poop out of people", lol, but I just don't see it that way. It seems like folks on this thread are split 50/50 about both the legality and morality of cold-calling people on the DNC list, specifically when it comes to calling people for the sole purpose of offering to BUY their property. This is why I wanted to re-ignite the discussion and get some additional opinions. 

I guess receiving cold calls just doesn't annoy me as much as it clearly does for some people! So yes, that may be part of the reason I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. If it's a phone number I don't recognize I usually ignore it. If I get a voicemail and it's spam, I delete it. And on the very very rare occasion that someone gets me on the phone, I politely say "No thanks", and hang up. Sure, it's minorly annoying ... but if I got a call from someone who was able to solve a big problem for me and was nice and polite all the way through, I would have absolutely no issues with that. That's my aim here - solve problems for others and make money doing so. 

The vast majority of people I've called don't immediately fly off the handle. Most of the property owners I call are open to at least talking when I tell them I live in the area. I live in New Orleans, it's a VERY neighborly and friendly kind of place. It's a pretty small city where everyone knows everyone. I can usually find a connection (OH you live on such & such street? Do you know so & so? Wow great!! I'll have to stop by your store some time and get a sandwich! Tell so & so I say hi!) I have had multiple people even save my phone number in their phone so we can stay in touch. I've also met TONS of other builders and investors this way, most of whom are extremely friendly, and want to stay in touch to see if we can help each other out in some way. My experience is why I used the hypothetical above. To me, it feels a lot more like I'm calling my neighbors and making conversation .... but I understand that SOME people don't see it that way. 

Of course it's about making money (it is a business afterall!) but it's also about revitalizing neighborhoods in a city that I love more than anything. If I can get people to open up on the phone just enough to find out WHY they haven't yet sold this property they've had sitting vacant for years, I can possibly help them solve whatever problem it is they are facing, get some money in their pockets, put the vacant property to good use, help revitalize the neighborhoods, and make money in the process. I've never really heard of a better "win-win" situation than that. When we start building a new house on a lot that has been sitting vacant forever, with druggies shooting up on it each night, EVERY SINGLE NEIGHBOR comes to tell me how happy they are. They are happy to have their blocks cleaned up, happy to have their home values increase when we sell, and the property owner who I cold-called initially made some dough. And yes, unofortunately you have to crack a few eggs to make an omlette. I don't feel bad about annoying a handful of people with unwanted phone calls in order to help my city, my neighbors, the property owners, and myself economically and financially. 

Thoughts?? Feel free to disagree with me, I have no issue with that! But please just be open, courteous, and respectful :) If you think cold-calling people on the DNC list is just wrong no matter what .... do you really think it's BETTER to let properties sit blighted forever and ever because the property owner may have put their name on the DNC list 20 years ago to avoid calls from telemarketers?