All Forum Posts by: Laura Williams

You definitely need an egress for a basement sleeping area. You'd need to check codes in your area but I believe you are suppose to have an egress window in each bedroom in case of fire. Plus depending on your area possibly a radon test to make sure the basement free from radon.

Even if you never had a fire there, you could have issues with the city or a tenant could use it as leverage to report you for an illegal bedroom if you had issues with them. And you never know if you might have bad luck and need to get a permit for something and then city codes is out and notices non-permitted bedrooms in the basement. And god forbid there is a fire and someone got hurt you'd be getting sued and could loose everything.

I wouldn't add  basement bedrooms unless you can make it safe & legal for the people living there. It's not worth the risk. Maybe just refinish the basement & make it a bonus room for a little extra rent & when you have the money to add the egress windows then come back and turn it into a couple extra bedrooms. 

Hello fellow KC Investors :) ......if you guys would be so kind as to share what banks you recommend currently for getting commercial loans for long term rentals and/or airbnb and/or cash out refinancing loans in the Kansas City area? Please list below any local or national lenders you think are rockstar commercial lenders and what the terms/rates you guys are getting currently.

I'm looking to refinance a few properties at better rates/terms and looking for recommendations :) Thanks in advance

@Erik Nordgaard

I've been investing in KC since 2014 and I can tell you the appraisers here are all over the place. I just refinanced a condo about 3 months ago and the first appraiser appraised it for exactly what we bought it at 185K ...cause I think his MO was just to appraise if for whatever the person paid and then the second appraiser 4 weeks later appraised the exact same place for 209K.

 I've had a majority of appraisers give honest and fair appraisals but I've had a small handful of appraisers that (in my opinion) were complete idiots and unprofessional. They do things like use comps that are in terrible shape to comp to a house that was recently beautifully rehabbed or use comps from deep in the ghetto to comp a house that is in a hip trendy good area or in one case I had the appraiser use a comp from Independence MO for a house that was in South Hyde park....10 miles away and in a completely different city!!! (The bank took the side of the appraiser when I tried to contest). Also sometimes appraisers who are local will have attitude about properties that are in the metro area because those areas used to be bad 20 years and now they are great but the appraisers haven't caught up with the times in their minds. I had one appraiser give me a crappy appraisal cause he didn't like the style the property was renovated it. It was modern with concrete floors and countertops..very cool and well done but because it wasn't granite or traditional style he dinged it & made notes about it. We got a second appraisal that came in 50K more than his lowball one.

So point being it's hard to really get the appraisals down to a science because the KC appraisers  are all over the place. If you are planning to BRRR just make sure you can get a second appraisal done if you happen to get a bad appraiser. Most of mine have been accurate or about what I was expecting but I have had a few that were REALLY off & generally alot of appraisers tend to comp slightly under what the places are really worth I think to kind of cover themselves.

Hey! Wanted to update this thread. Are there any additional lenders to add to this list or any feedback on the lenders mentioned above?

I am so sorry you have to go through this stress and I hope your tenant makes a full recovery.
This could happen to any of us as there could be any number of accidents to take place on a property while people are working and making repairs.

For the BP community out there who have been through similar lawsuits what is the full lesson to be learned from this? Please let me know if this is the full list or to add on anything

1) Own properties in an LLC
2) Have good liability insurance
3) Only hire licensed and insured people to work on our properties especially roofs or dangerous jobs....
Question for professional- how far do you take this? Assuming people who mow the lawn or clean or paint or do sheetrock or backsplash or lay carpet or flooring....who needs a license and insurance and who doesn't?? Is it ever safe to hire a solo handyman??
4) if an accident does happen then contact an attorney first and then let him contact the insurance company in case you accidentally say something wrong that might invalidate your insurance.

Anything else to add?

@Caleb Brown

@Jeffrey Donis

@Jeffrey Donis

Just wanted to update you guys on what happened. So basically got no where with KC water and was jerked around from person to person to person to person I spoke with. Told it was our fault and they were within their rights to kill the water line without notifying the owner & make us dig a brand new water line at our expense. 

I spoke with alot of investors including one who sued KC Water in a similar situation and lost and said he wasted alot of money and time on it. My plumber told me KC Water are jerks to deal with & nothing we could do & they had all the power.

So what got my situation resolved was calling the mayor's office...Surprisingly??!! I was escalated to a senior person at KC Water and now my water is back on without having to dig a new line and paying the 13K. I was even apologized to by KC Water for not being notified of the tenant was stealing water before they killed the water line.

So just wanted to thank everyone who posted on here especially @Debbie C. Even though the Missouri utility regulation she recommended I call doesn't regulate the water companies (only gas and electric) they were able to tell me the mayor and city council did and that's what made me contact the mayor office. I would have never known they had anyone actually overseeing them without Debby's post.

So just wanted to share in case this helps anyone else having issues. It's been a nightmare and luckily the mayor office (Mayor Lucus) helped me fight off the KC water rapist. I was really shocked they were so helpful. 

Thanks so much for the information @Kim Tucker. I was told a while ago from KC water that they do not have a revert to owner set up like Spire or Evergy that is voluntary. It is automatically in their system to revert to owner when a tenant moves out or a property is sold it transfers automatically whether you want it to or not. Could be I was told incorrectly cause so many of their agents are terrible? I had another thing with them wanting the water off on a different property because it was vacant and I was doing repairs and a big rehab and they would not stop service. Service is mandatory ...even now on this property the owner is being billed every month for water even though they cut the line off.

They NEVER reverted the water bill to the owner on this house even though section 8 tenant had not paid a water bill since 2015 (found out obviously after) & they had not placed a lien on the property when it transferred end of last year & cleared title so we had no idea. Also the water company and other utilities will not tell you information on anyone's account even your own until you give them social numbers and identify yourself as the owner of the account.

It really angers me cause I feel like legally they should be required to send a certified letter to the owner before digging up the yard and doing 5 figures worth of damage to someone's property. It wasn't the owner that was stealing water it was the tenant & how is a landlord suppose to be responsible for bad behavior unless they contact the owner to let them know!!??? 

@Debbie C. I called the Missouri commission just now and unfortunately they don't regulate the KC Water. They said its regulated by a municipality which is the mayor office and city council. Now if I had an issue with Spire (gas) or Evergy (electric( which are private companies) then they could have helped me. I did learn something from this and thank you for the suggestion. 

@Debbie C. I did not know there was a commission that regulates the utility companies. I will google that and reach out to them. Thank you for the suggestion. 

Wanted to post on here in case this helps save another Kansas City investor from a similar nightmare with KC Water. Less than a year ago my partner bought a house that had an inherited long term section 8 disabled tenant in there who was on section 8 for years and years. Everything was fine and then a few weeks ago the property manager calls and says the tenant's water had been cut off because the tenant owed 12K to the water company. Tenant then moves out of the house.

In trying to get the water turned back on to make repairs I talked to 4 different people at KC Water that tell me we can't get it turned back on until we pay the tenant's outstanding 12K water bill and flat out tell me "owners are responsible for tenant's water bill". Which as you KC seasoned investors know we are not legally responsible. I record this conversation and threaten to go to fox news and finally after being denied to speak to a supervisor I get a call back from one.

Supervisor explains to me that the section 8 tenant was actually stealing water so they didn't just turn the water off they actually dug up at the street and disconnected the main line. She says we don't have to pay the ex-tenant's water bill but we have to pay $1250 and have our plumber do a couple things to the line and then we can have the water connected again.

We unhappily pay the $1250 & our plumber files a permit and meets KC Water out at the house. They tell him they will not reconnect the old water line. We have to dig an all new water line (as if the house never had water at all going to it). The house is older (as is alot of houses in KC) and that the old water line was considered grandfathered in as far as codes and was fine but when KC Water messed with the line to cut off water from the tenant then now it is not considered grandfathered in anymore. The whole line has to be redone and plumbers bid is 13K to do this!!!! They have to dig up the yard and street and it's this big deal.  $1200 of the 13K is yet another fee that is going to KC Water.

So basically because KC Water was angry with the ex-tenant for stealing water they did 13K worth of damage to the property. KC Water NEVER at any point notified the owner there was any kind of problem BEFORE they did this. We found out the hard way what they had done AFTER.

*Section 8 tenants sign contracts with section 8 obligating them to be personally responsible for being in good standing with utilities otherwise they loose their voucher but apparently section 8 never checks that FYI. When I looked into the ex-tenant's water bill he hadn't paid since 2015.

For my fellow investors just want you to be aware of what happened here in case you ever encounter a similar situation & what kind of company KC Water is to deal with. I still can't believe this kind of thing is legal & especially to cause such an expensive repair/damage to a property without even being required to send out a certified letter or notify the owner in any form or fashion BEFORE doing something like this??!! The water company could have easily switched service to the owner name like what happens when a tenant moves out but they didn't. This is not to mention the first few people I spoke with at KC Water who incorrectly told us we had to pay the ex-tenant's 12K water bill which we could have gotten taken for if I hadn't known better.

 ***I'd be interested in speaking to any lawyers who are familiar and have won cases against KC water if anyone wants to get in touch with me*** The advice I'm getting is that we have no power to fight them and KC water can do whatever they feel like.