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All Forum Posts by: Jon Martin

Jon Martin has started 30 posts and replied 931 times.

Quote from @Lisa Marie:

Bonus depreciation may sound good -- "oh, I can offset it against my W2 income and not have to pay tax", but in reality, it is just another way for the tax professionals to get more business by charging you for doing the cost seg as well as preparing an ever-increasingly complicated tax return.  If you are a corporation or a real estate developer, it may be different, but for the vast majority of the mom and pop investors, it has no value.

First of all, I always find it laughable that any high income professional, doctor or lawyer or corporate executive, would want to trade their most valuable resource (time) for something they already have plenty (money). Second of all, any depreciation, regular or bonus, is a delayed tax.  You still have to pay it eventually, possibly at a higher rate.  If you are close to retirement age, and think your W2 income will decrease significantly in a couple of years, then cost seg and bonus depreciation can be useful.  But I don't think that's the case for most people.

I am just a housewife, but my husband is an engineer and has an MBA. We have a STR beach house and he looked into the bonus depreciation scheme. He even went so far as creating an Excel file (as an engineer would do), and concluded that (1) if you are not already a real estate investor, you are actually better off by taking the money and investing in the stock market; (2) if you already own a STR, cost seg has a small benefit, but the benefit decreases the longer you own the property, also there is the cost of the cost seg itself. To be clear, he is not saying that you should not invest in real estate or STR. He is saying that if you want to invest in STR, do it because you think it's a good way to make money or because you want to diversify your assets, but don't do it just for the cost seg tax savings.

The key point to remember is that yes you can get the bonus depreciation right away, and depending on your W2 income amount, you can skip paying tax for the first 3 or 4 years. But then what? Once the bonus depreciation is over, your tax goes back up. Another key point: how much is your time worth? If you make $200k a year, that's $100/hr your employer is paying you. To use this "tax loophole", you need to spend at least 100 hrs AND more than anybody else. 100 hrs is 8 hrs a month -- if you have 3 or 4 rentals per month, your cleaner will spend more than that. I think realistically, 150 hrs or even 200 hrs is more likely, especially for a new STR owner.

Here is the Excel table my husband did, with some very simplistic assumptions. Assuming you have $1.2M cash, which can be invested in the stock market and reasonably get a 7% return. Or you can buy a $1.2M STR with the building valued at $1M, which is your max bonus depreciation amount. Assuming your W2 income is $250k, and you get a gross income of $100k from your STR. Roughly it translates to about $50k Net after deducting all expenses.

Conclusion: you save some money in the first 3 years, but at a cost of spending a lot of time to manage the STR, not to mention any start-up time to buy and furnish and launch the STR. But over a span of 10 years, you actually make less money.

Again, I want to emphasize, I am not saying it's a bad idea to invest in an STR. I am saying it's a bad idea to invest in an STR purely for the benefit of cost seg to lower your tax bill.

Option 1: invest money Option 2: STR with Cost Seg
Investment income on $1.2 M W2 income 25% tax on Income Money in the bank Value of my time Net Income on $1.2M STR $1M Bonus Depreciation W2 income 25% tax on income Money in the bank Value of my time ($100*200 hrs) REAL NET PROFIT
Year 1 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 -$300,000 $250,000 $0 $300,000 ($20,000) $280,000
Year 2 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 -$300,000 $250,000 $0 $300,000 ($20,000) $280,000
Year 3 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 -$300,000 $250,000 $0 $300,000 ($20,000) $280,000
Year 4 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 -$100,000 $250,000 $50,000 $250,000 ($20,000) $230,000
Year 5 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 $0 $250,000 $75,000 $225,000 $225,000
Year 6 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 $0 $250,000 $75,000 $225,000 $225,000
Year 7 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 $0 $250,000 $75,000 $225,000 $225,000
Year 8 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 $0 $250,000 $75,000 $225,000 $225,000
Year 9 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 $0 $250,000 $75,000 $225,000 $225,000
Year 10 $90,000 $250,000 $85,000 $255,000 0 $50,000 $0 $250,000 $75,000 $225,000 $225,000
TOTAL $2,550,000 $2,420,000

While I can appreciate the cost/time/benefit analysis, and think that this should be done by everyone for all things in life, as a whole I don't agree with any of this. You can get a cost seg for a SFR for ~$600, so you dont need to spend thousands. I'm not worried about recapture because I buy in appreciating markets that also cash flow as an STR. Plus, I already self manage because I am basically paying myself thousands of dollars per year for doing so. Therefore the W2 offset is quite significant for something I would be doing anyway.

Quote from @Alex Scattareggia:
Quote from @Alberto Nikodimov:

Best time to improve your Airbnb is during low season. I recommend going through your reviews, see what guests recommend you to improve in order to make their stays better. Take advantage of the low season to keep your bookings up with good reviews in high season!  

Also, low season can be good to list your new airbnb. So you can focus on getting 5 start reviews, build the property profile and be ready for high season!

What have we as a community done to receive such deep and penetrating insights as these?

In all seriousness, what are the purposes of posts like these. I browse other forums here on BP and they are not riddled with self promoting or pointless posts as frequently as the STR ones. Would be nice if 10-20% of the threads weren't people giving the most obvious and intuitive advice that any person with a brain could deduce on their own. Save it for instagram!


 Thank you. By far the most Captain Obvious post I’ve read here, and possibly on the internets as a whole 

Post: Is this a new trend?

Jon MartinPosted
  • Posts 941
  • Votes 794
Quote from @Eliott Elias:

Short term rental landlords are doing whatever they can to squeeze out the last few pennies they can before they all go under.


 Lolz. The majority will not go under. 

Post: Is this a new trend?

Jon MartinPosted
  • Posts 941
  • Votes 794

 For sure @Rodney Sums . It wasn’t “free”unless you were expensing it. 

What’s even dumber is Expedia/hotels/Vrbo selling this as a cross platform win for customers, except the points can’t be cashed with lots of VRBO hosts. 

Quote from @Michael Baum:

I think it would be fun but I no longer have the ability to be as involved as running a small hotel.

We came close to buying a 24 room BnB in New Hampshire a long time ago. Had a restaurant and a small bar. Very cool place but decided to stay put rather than roll the dice.

No longer in the cards for us.

Depending on the layout it could be much less work than a traditional hotel/motel and managed in a similar way as an STR, just at a bigger scale. I've stayed in boutique hotels that were minimally staffed with keyless entry. Then you could lease the restaurant out to a local restauranteur.

That said I would still want to sub out the management. 

Post: Is this a new trend?

Jon MartinPosted
  • Posts 941
  • Votes 794

I noticed this with VRBO about a month back. Actually took 2-3 clicks to get to the final out the door price, and it was well over double the nightly rate all in. 

On a related note, Hotels dot com also gutted their "stay 10 nights, 1 night free" program, which was basically a 10% rebate/dividend. It was incredible if you traveled for work and had control over how you booked. Hot a few dozen free hotel nights for personal use over the years. Now you only get 2%. They spun is a win for the consumer, but when I tried to cash in the points it didn't even work on at least half of the places I tried to book . . . WTF?

Dumbest part is that I was looking forward to cancelling my hotels account, but not I can't because I have a VRBO owner account tied to the same email, so I would basically be deleting my VRBO listing in the process. Absurd. 

Post: First 4 Star Review

Jon MartinPosted
  • Posts 941
  • Votes 794

Agreed with the above. Gently mention and apologize the train and say that it is not normal, then highlight the specific nice things they said about your place.

It's kinda silly that Airbnb asks guests for an overall rating first, then gets sub category ratings that have no impact on the overall rating. It would make much more sense if they based your overall rating on the cumulative of the latter, but the don't, so it is what it is. 

That's for sure! I've had my eye on that area for a few years, mainly north topsail. I like that new development is geographically constrained, however Airdna is showing a lot of new supply. Maybe a lot of it has been casually owned for personal use for a long time and is now turning into new professionally managed supply? I will probably sideline myself for another season and see how the comps perform. 

I've spoken with lenders doing Fannie Mae loans and they can use local LTR rents as income without it affecting your DTI. However, not sure how that break down with a split use property like you are mentioning, at which point your income would likely be an important factor. Call around.

Hi @Michael Baum this was on AIRBNB. That is exactly what I had in mind, to charge them for the pet fee and use that to cover the bed skirt. 

Yes- they did not select "Pet" when they did the booking nor was there a message about it. At times I have waived pets when they forget to put it in their booking but they tell me they will bring one. 

What I'm more concerned about is the order of operations . . . $50 isn't worth a petty/punitive review. Will probably do what @Mark Miles suggested. 

Thanks all!