All Forum Posts by: Jonathan Hasan

@David Lee Hall, III @Waylon Zook @Zachary Ray @Steve Milford @Account Closed

Hey guys! 

Sorry for the late response to all of your posts. 

Thank you very much! You guys have given me a veritable treasure trove of stuff to look at. 

I hope I don't get sidetracked in any way. I am interested in wholesale, fix and flip and rentals so I tend to wander. 

Thank you again everyone!

Sorry but can you tell me how wholesaling and being a loan shark are equivalent? 

The person I talked to about wholesale says the sellers were relieved because they got out of a distressed asset. No blemish on their credit report and they helped a family get liquid cash to do with as they pleased. 

For a loan shark, I am unsure of how having a payday loan say with 1000% interest would have anyone being grateful. I guess they would be happy to have money to feed their family temporarily but then get hit with the interest and then they wouldn't be as grateful or would severely regret their actions. Also maybe a loan shark chases after someone with a bat who refuses to pay or can't maybe in a seedy part of town or something. Sorry but the person I talk to doesn't look like nor talks like a person who would do that. I met her through a REIA if that helps the argument in anyway and she was cordial throughout the meeting. She was invited by veterans with decades of experience to speak.

Jay makes a good argument though that sometimes wholesalers take more equity from families through exorbitant wholesale fees. Or ties up a contract to bully people, I guess you can argue that is similar in a way. The person I talked to has had many happy sellers.  

Of course, I could have misinterpreted your argument so please correct me if I am wrong. Again, I am not trying to start fights here. I am trying to learn from anyone who is willing to talk to me.  

It does seem like wholesaling does attract a lot of scumbags. Some people have no qualms with screwing people over. If I did decide to get into this business, those are the last types of people I want to associate with. About 5 years ago I was in relatively large credit card debt, 6000 or so and I was cash poor and living with my parents while going to university. To say that took a toll on my health is an understatement. I know that I am luckier than others in being able to go to university and live with my parents but being stuck with debt and being cash poor left me with a lot of stress. Luckily I managed to get my degree and get an engineering job for 8 months before covid hit but it really hit me hard being poor. 

I can't even imagine the hell people go through when their house is tied up in a contract by an immoral individual who bullies the seller to concede to his/her terms. Or when a seller couple loses a huge chunk of equity because they weren't informed of their houses true value. I feel for those sellers. All that potential money taken away that could have gone to their children's education fund,their retirement, their down payment on a new house, money for debt repayment taken away by scumbags who don't give two sh*ts about anyone but themselves.

I do empathize with sellers and their plight and maybe its my responsibility to bring change. Or maybe I am just being a dumb kid who thinks in idealistic terms and can't come to grips with reality. I don't know but whatever the case I will try my damnedest to be a person that people would be happy to work with.  

However, words are cheap. I want to prove it with action but I need to do a lot more research first. 

Jay, 

Thank you for your response. 

Please keep in mind that I am not trying to start arguments with anyone. Maybe I am misinterpreting the tone of your passage and if that's the case I apologize. I am just trying to share what I learned with him. 

The wholesaler I talk to does full disclosure. She asks people why they don't go to the MLS because normally they would get more money if they had the assistance of a listing agent. Again, for the reasons I stated above (I guess you could say dumb reasons) they don't go find a listing agent. She says most if not all the sellers she has helped were grateful for her services. However, she is just one example. I am still learning about what benefits a seller might get from people like her.

I know I might be a bit repetitive at times but I am trying to get the full story. You do make good points though. A seller for the most part benefits more from the listing agent then a wholesaler. I still have to find counter evidence for that point and maybe there is none. 

Thank you again for the discourse. 

Sincerely,

Jonathan Hasan

@Nathan Gesner

Hello Nathan, 

Sounds like you have also been confused by the legalities of wholesale like me. I had a post that transformed into a discourse on wholesale ethics. I have talked with people on both sides who each have their own evidence to support their conclusions. 

My thinking was if I state those four points for the legal, honest way as you have in your original post then I would be able to be doing these sorts of deals ethically, keeping all parties interests at heart. I also heard from a wholesaler that I talked with yesterday that she asks people in off market deals why they don't go to the MLS and that they could probably get more money by working with a listing agent. Many of her clients had reasons for not going. I am not sure if they were good reasons or not though. Things like being ashamed at the condition of their house or being distrustful of agents. Emotion was a large factor. I guess behavioral economics is a real thing.

However, I have heard horror stories from other people saying that there were wholesalers who swindle unsuspecting home sellers out of their well deserved money. One story I heard was there was a couple in Massachussets who was selling a ranch home, three bed and two bath if i recall correctly. The wholesalers used the couples lack of knowledge to basically convince them that no one was going to be able to pay more than 220K dollars for that house when really it was worth 315K. The real estate agent I talked to managed to save the couple in time by listing the house and netting them the 310K that the house sold for. Thank god for that guy. 

I honestly want to try and start in wholesale but there seems to be so much evidence for both sides that I am kind of crippled in terms of making a decision. People like Nicky and Steve make good points about spamming, lack of fiduciary responsibilities, swindling and scumbaggery in general that bolster the position that wholesalers are bad. On the flip side there are people I have met at REIA meetings who have helped sellers with their wholesale activities. The sellers were very relieved after letting go of their distressed assets and some even cried, if what she said is to be believed.

However, I am new to real estate in general and just sharing my thoughts and evidence that I have collected. I intend to do more research. 

@Jesse Morrell

Never mind, I have confirmed for myself. They do indeed have everything on youtube. I am honestly astonished at all this information that is available. I may have to network to find a handyman to shadow. 

Thanks for your help Jesse!

Damn, you are kind of like a jack of all trades then. Are there youtube videos for all of the things you do?

Sure, but it would help to be well versed so that you can tell when someone is overcharging you for work right?

Also, what kind of things do you do personally? Do you just focus on painting or cosmetic repairs and hire out other people for more difficult issues like pipe issues for example?

I see. If I may ask, how long does it take to be a good handyman? I understand this is not an overnight thing, which is no problem. I am open to learning more and putting in the time.   

Thank you for your reply Jesse

Are there any channels you trust? If so, can you say why they are better than others?