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All Forum Posts by: J. Mitchell Bernier

J. Mitchell Bernier has started 30 posts and replied 280 times.

Post: Well It Happened...Walking away from Earnest Money

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
  • Lender
  • Southwest Georgia
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 253
Quote from @Henry Clark:

Yes things are tightening. 

Work with them on a working capital line of credit.  That way you know your number ahead of time. 

Also if you have been in the two units for a while still refi up to an acceptable level if you want to get cash out, can lower your payment and extend the amort period.  If it fits your goals. 

Work Inflation. Pay further out with cheaper dollars due to inflation and have more hard assets increasing in value


Run the numbers.  Might be worth moving from say 4.5 to 5.5%.  


 Honestly the working capital line was what we were working towards to begin with and then when the property came up I said lets do that instead. But I think they are now just uneasy about tapping that equity. Just gonna sit tight for a sec and if I need to refi then I will. But think that new rate will be closer to 7-8%, if it was 5.5% I would be all over it. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
  • Lender
  • Southwest Georgia
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 253
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @J. Mitchell Bernier:

@James Hamling

I agree that there will be a push for "affordability measures" by our govt. Whether it be in longer term mortgages or more voucher programs. 

However; you said that "It's a basic 101 principle of economics that for ever $1.00 of increased cost of goods (ie wages) the cost of product must increase $1.07. Thanks to various factors like taxation etc., but this is and has been an established fact for pretty much forever. So, trying to "level" things with increases is, very literally, a never ending increase, and unattainable. In crease begets increase." and that doesn't show in the data.

Below is a chart from the Atlanta Fed showing wage increases and the CPI for each year from 1998 till now. Sometimes that happens but sometimes it doesn't, look at 2012-2020 and 1998-2007. So raising wages faster than the inflation rate will not cause a tailspin. 

Whether we like it or not, we need a "culling of the herd" a "scheduled burn"  of the economy including housing, that can was kicked down the road for far too long and now we have to pay the piper. 


 That data source is not going to work. 

In the Obama era, they changed the the formula for how things get calculated. Not the only administration where such changes were implemented, this was just the most controversial changes to it and where it really went off the rails and became junk data. 

It's a simple fact the disparity gap is at epic levels, and it has grown at such for some time. Go look up un-cooked numbers from independent data sources. Especially those who take into account "shadow inflation". Which is a factor where, let's say a bag of chips cost $1.00 for 10oz of chips. And then that bag is changed to be 7.5oz, at $1.00 per bag. The price per bag has remained the same but it's not the same, it has incurred a 25% inflation via the reduction in packaging. 

Your saying a "burn" of the economy and housing pricing that was "kicked down the road for far too long", what are you referencing, the last 10 years, 50 years, or 125 years? Because fact is housing has a rather steady appreciation over decades of your choice. Are you saying housing should be at 1974 levels? What decade was there supposed to be a deflation? What makes you an authority on what housing "should" be priced at? 

A house costs 1 of 2 things. Either what the inputs to create that housing are, or what a person is willing to sell it for. That's it. There is no other dictate of what a home should cost, unless we are going full communist. 

On raising wages, your completely missing what I was putting down. If you pay a worker $1.oo more to make a burger, that burger will NOT sell for $1.00 more. It will sell for $1.07 more. Now translate that across all the everything's in life. So as wages go up, cost of items disproportionately go up in relation, thus making a person poorer, just at biggers numbers. 

Your chart, conveniently left out other pertinent years I see. How about pulling up not wage growth, but actual wages vs cost of living, let's look at those 2 simple ones in relationship. And not to mention, your data is flawed, it's got about half of living expenses removed, so if a person doesn't eat, yeah there a-ok. 

Wow, Lots to unpack here so let go through each one. 
1) "The changing of the formula during the Obama Years": Look at years 1998 through 2007. 
2) What sources are you looking at? I will be happy to go look for them, but who are you referring too? CNN? Fox News? The Onion? I would think the FED is as close to independent as we can get since they are not driven by clicks, ADs, or Subscriptions. 
3) "Burn of the economy", we should of been in QT for a long time now and raising rates back in 2018. But they got to scared and backed off when the "Taper Tantrum" happened. Because of that every asset, stocks, real estate, cyrpto, etc all became too inflated. So yeah we should of had an economic reset in 2018 and since we "kicked the can" then we are not paying for it more dearly.
4) Never said anything about what housing should be at, but housing should not be increasing at 20% or more in a year on average. That is unsustainable just as any asset increasing that fast is unsustainable. 
5) "Dictating the price of housing" You are correct, but when we helicopter cash and give everyone money that they don't need this provides the spark to increase all asset prices. So then demand is artificially inflated. 
6) "Missing half of living expenses"? That is the CPI not the core CPI, the CPI includes food, energy, housing and a host of other things. The core CPI, which i think is what you are referring too, excludes food and energy. So that is why I chose the CPI over the Core CPI 

I hope you are right and I am flat wrong, but if its the other way around at least I know I was prepared. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
  • Lender
  • Southwest Georgia
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 253

@James Hamling

I agree that there will be a push for "affordability measures" by our govt. Whether it be in longer term mortgages or more voucher programs. 

However; you said that "It's a basic 101 principle of economics that for ever $1.00 of increased cost of goods (ie wages) the cost of product must increase $1.07. Thanks to various factors like taxation etc., but this is and has been an established fact for pretty much forever. So, trying to "level" things with increases is, very literally, a never ending increase, and unattainable. In crease begets increase." and that doesn't show in the data.

Below is a chart from the Atlanta Fed showing wage increases and the CPI for each year from 1998 till now. Sometimes that happens but sometimes it doesn't, look at 2012-2020 and 1998-2007. So raising wages faster than the inflation rate will not cause a tailspin. 

Whether we like it or not, we need a "culling of the herd" a "scheduled burn"  of the economy including housing, that can was kicked down the road for far too long and now we have to pay the piper. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
  • Lender
  • Southwest Georgia
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 253
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Joe Bertolino:
Quote from @John Carbone:

However, the major crash scenario may occur when tech companies started laying off people, simply they can't pay mortgages hence they're forced to move outside CA. That's one scenario for CA.' CA economy is extremely sensitive to the tech economy and the tech economy has reliant on the cheap money policy.

Tech co. can't sell products if the dollar is too high.

This is what I've been saying. The housing market is not in it's own disaggregated economy. It's a part of the larger macro economy. There are obviously nuances and specific variables that apply to different sectors, states, cities, and localities. However, we need to look at housing through the macro lens and evaluate all of the economical variables that impact housing.  
 
There are a few things that I'm keeping a close eye on.

1) Foreclosures. I was reading that 16% of home owners used mortgage forbearance due to covid. A lot of people just came off, and others are still just coming off covid forbearance. For these folks there are generally three main options. The first is a repayment plan... so if someone missed 18 payments, they would divide those into 12 portions. The individual would need to pay not only their regular mortgage, but also the repayment. The second is lump sum, which really makes no sense. If someone was unable to make their normal payment for "x" months, how would they be able to repay it all in one shot? The third I believe is loan modification. According to Freddie the loan modification interest rate is 5.5%. Assuming someone went on forbearance with a 3.5 or 4% rate, their loan mod is going to add on all of the missed payments in terms of principal balance, and also shoot their rate up quite a bit. 
- In short, I think there are going to be a lot of foreclosures in the coming months, years. 

Student loans.
Studnet loans have been "paused" due to covid, and are set to restart Jan 1, 2023. This is significant and can't be ignored. 

Rents.
This one is obviously local, but despite high rents pretty much across the board, there are a lot of areas where it's still cheaper to rent than buy. The top 10 on that list are San Francisco, Oakland, LA, San Jose, NYC, Long Beach, Seattle, DC, San Diego, and Boston. 

Inflation. This one is major, as costs for basic necessities continue to shoot through the roof. There is ample info out there about the impact of inflation, how it's draining savings accounts, running up credit card debt, etc. 

Stock Market.
As the stock market continues to crash (Dow currently down to $29.417), this signals bad news since the stock market is generally see as a vote of confidence for the economy. This also means less $$ for businesses, cutting expenses, hiring freezes, layoffs, impacts on pension funds, reduced funding for expansion and R&D, etc. 

Unemployment. For those still in denial about this one, Powell cautioned that a sharp rise in unemployment may be coming as the fed hikes interest rates at the fastest pace in a quarter-century. We're already seeing a significant slowing in private sector new jobs created. Tech sector is going to be hit hard as well as many publicly traded fortune 500 companies. There's a lot here and this can certainly be argued, but I believe that the signs/ indicators point to unemployment rising at a pretty significant pace over the upcoming months/ years. 

Foreclosures - I am so exhausted of hearing about this twisting of the narrative. We have had post after post for nearly 2 years on B.P. how there is this giant foreclosure "mass" that's "just about to it". No, no there is not, just as nothing has come of it for the last 2 years. It's grabbing a few data points and building a pre-determined narrative with selective data. The lion's share of these deferments where at request and direction of banks and media to take them "just in case". Millions, and I do mean MILLIONS had no need, but took them "just in case" because there was unknowns and that was the directives given of no negative potential if taken. Also, the prevailing construct is missed payments are just added onto the end of the mortgage. Banks are not setting up REO system like 20-teens era, that is the first and biggest signal to watch for, it's very telling. It will matter when actual foreclosure fillings move forward, until then forbearance is a pointless metric unless it's to pump views on your YT channel.

Student Loans - Yeah, exactly, what will the effect be of BILLIONS in Student Loans being whipped out? What will be the effect of all those people having that ADDED $$$$ in hand thanks to that? Or, how about the added inflation from such.     Yes, payments restart, with many accounts now at $0, or a lot less then they were before. They serviced them pre-covid, how will it magically become a collapse today? 

Inflation - Inflation does not only increase consumer costs, it hit's everything. We are now seeing the start of wage increase "wave" of inflationary cycle. 

Stock Market - Yes, this does matter much as regularly just after inspection is completed, pre-closing we do have that Stock Market check to complete closing.......... Ok, there is some relation but reality is housing costs and activity does not follow the fluctuations and movement of the Stock Market. And actually, a bad stock market is good for housing, it helps promote the sale of various bonds. Covid start the stocks went into free-fall, did housing? 

Unemployment - Tech, tech, Tech, f-n TECH....... So exhausted from yammering on Tech likes it's all there is. Look, how do you get food on your plate? Did Tech bring that to the store? Tech is just a part, a PART, of everything that happens. We have such a demand for workers in everything else today, because the countless masses have been tech obsessed and all trying to get into tech vs a trade school to be an electrician, plumber, CNC machinist, truck driver, millwright, on and on. There is this whole universe NOT tech that brings only about 95% of everything in your life. Tech is integrated into a lot, but integration does NOT make it the whole. This is a hijack mindset.     I say GOOD, fire a million tech workers, thank God, less tech would be AMAZING! Maybe things would actually reliably work for a bit, lol.        All the various industries starving for skilled workers would suck them up in a blink. U.S. manufacturing is absolutely starving for people.     On that end I say don't tease me with a good time!     When I review a new tenant know what I think, I see a tech job I think "meah" but I see Electrician, Iron Worker, Nurse, I am jumping for joy because those are REAL and secured incomes, big time. Check any trade school, they will say "yes please, bring the people, we got jobs NOW".    Bridges don't care what the DOW says, the ageing population don't stop growing and, ageing.     A shift would be amazing, and speed the economic recovery into a bull-run.     

The BEST thing that could come out of all this is smashing this mirage of global dependance, which the U.S. got wayyyy out of wack on, and a balanced move of production WHICH MEANS a renaissance in U.S. domestic production, and innovations that come with such.

Do you realize when this happens that there will be more workers to build houses? Oil and lumber prices have already deflated which will make home building cheaper. Add in more skilled workers and we will get housing more affordable and in line with what it should be based on inflation since 1980 and wage growth, easily 20 percent less than now. 


 We are at such a massive net shortage of skilled workers that we need to intake in the millions of skilled workers just to get to stability of current pricing. Are you aware that more then 30% of the skilled work-force is now working BEYOND standard retirement age for such work? This is why the impact is being felt in the historical norm industries post-trades or things such as trade instructors, or compliance positions. 

Also, it is called SKILLED trades for a reason, it takes a number of YEARS for a person to come up to proficiency. This gap can not be infilled in 1yr, even if sheer volume of bodies is thrown at it there is then the years of training to bring them up to full utilization. It is coined "the lost decade" in reference to this, as in 10 years of lost recruitment and training. We are talking millions of persons short. It can get infilled, but not quickly. 

As for adjusted price inflation vs wage incline, are you kidding me?! So you expect that in housing prices and completely ignore it's not present ANYWHERE, in any industry?! Let me make this simple; NOT-GONNA-HAPPEN. It's called the disparity gap. 

Yes, oil and lumber prices have come down.... from their highs. Guess what it is today, MORE then pre-covid. 

Look, your whole premise is to argue prices are somehow going to magically come back to what they were a few years ago. Please, tell me when that ever happened. EVER. HVAC supply prices are still continuing up, concrete is now in shortage and guess what those prices are doing. Gypsum is still well higher then 3 yrs ago and guess what, it's NOT ever going to be that price again EVER!

Look, everyone, please just spend 30 seconds and look up inflation. Everything WILL-COST-MORE, that's inflation, that's what it does. So arguing there is inflation, and that prices will come down, is nutz, it's just disconnected lunacy. 

The only way your getting prices back down to yester-year is called deflation. Guess what the Fed says on deflation; that it's the only thing worse then inflation. Notice the Fed say "correction" and not deflation, not crash, not collapse, "correction" and getting inflation reigned in. Notice they say ACCEPTABLE level of inflation. ACCEPTABLE, as-in there happy with inflation, it's great, just at lower levels then this. 

Maybe the Fed needs to come out with statements in Crayola or a sing-along version to help make things understood to all, IDK, but they are NOT gunning for deflation, just stabilized inflation. Lower levels of inflation. Not 20% fall back in anything. 

AND on oil, let's see how oil price works out when were not pumping from strategic reserves, the prices reflect the artificial lowering, FYI. 

You go tell me how many electricians, carpenters, masons etc. are happy to sign on to "easily" take 20% less, let me know how well that works out for ya. 


 Let me preface this by saying, I don't see a "crash" but certainly a pull back. However your last point is interesting, about skilled labor taking less. Because that is exactly what happened after the bubble burst the last time. Demand dried up and many of the contractors, plumbers, electricians, and others were begging for work so they were doing it for just barely over cost, compared to recently pricing up a 30% margin. I can line people up around the street that either did that in last recession that survived or didn't financially survive it. So yes it certainly can happen that these skilled workers take less. 

Also keep watching lumber, the futures contracts for November are down and are at the highs before the pandemic. So as rates continue to rise and construction demand wanes it will continue to fall. 

Only time will tell, but as for me I am preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. 

Post: Well It Happened...Walking away from Earnest Money

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
  • Lender
  • Southwest Georgia
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 253

Well it happened. I am having to cancel a contract due to funding issues. I went under contract on a home with a local bank that I have used for over three years and still have active loans with decide to become more restrictive. Here is what went down. 

I have a commercial loan with a balance of $90K that is secured by two separate properties that had appraised in August for a total of $180K, one for $79K and the other $101K. My plan was to use the equity in these two properties and purchase a separate property for $67K. So based on a total based on a total value of $247K, $180k +price of new property, this would put me at an LTV of 63.5% across all properties. Today the bank called and decided that they were not allowing me to use that equity and must do 20% down in cash, previously it had been 15%. My response was that I don't want to use my cash when I have that much equity, plus with times being uncertain I don't want to fall below my minimum reserves. The bank said they understood that but still wanted the cash. I then asked, "OK if I do the cash and get in a bind will you lend me money in a cash out situation?" and of course their answer was, NO. Of course those loans are locked up at 4.5% and not willing to refi them for almost double to just do the deal with another bank.

So today I canceled the contract and let the EM walk, $1k so not terrible, but stinks. However; this is just another sign that we are moving into uncertain times and that funding can dry up from banks, even ones that you have worked with in the past. So be prepared and keep your powder dry during these uncertain times. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
  • Lender
  • Southwest Georgia
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 253
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Joe Bertolino:

Student Loans - Yeah, exactly, what will the effect be of BILLIONS in Student Loans being whipped out? What will be the effect of all those people having that ADDED $$$$ in hand thanks to that? Or, how about the added inflation from such.     Yes, payments restart, with many accounts now at $0, or a lot less then they were before. They serviced them pre-covid, how will it magically become a collapse today? 

Ok, now let's dissect the claims made in this statement. 

1) Certain individuals will have their loan reduced or eliminated all together. However, this greatly varies depending on the type of loans they had and also their current income. 

2) You didn't mention the estimated cost to repay this debt, which effects 100% of tax payers. The estimated cost per tax payer is $2,000. So while a small segment of people are getting a break, the rest aren't. As you would phrase it "What will be the effect of all these people having that ADDED $$$". I can similarly ask, what will be the effect be on the entire tax paying population of the United States having to endure further tax burdens and having LESS $$$?

3) You state that "many accounts will now be at $0", which is also misleading and missing context. CNBS projects that roughly 8 million people can have their loans "cleared". However, per the DOE there are over 45 million Americans that hold federal student loans. 

This means that only 17% of people with student loans would have their loans "forgiven", leaving well over 80% still having to manage their student loans. 

In short, is an incredibly weak argument that the Biden "loan forgiveness" is going to create an overall positive impact on the economy as a whole. The data supports the opposite. A very few people are going to benefit and many are going to suffer in terms of higher taxes. Further, an overwhelming majority of student loan holders will NOT have their loans erased and will have to resume making payments in a few months. And now since inflation is raging, wages are lower now than what they were when loans were paused. 


 This is a great example here of a pre-determined conclusion and just, sticking to it, no matter the data, just keep sticking to it over n over...... 

Look, I did say "and the resulting inflation from such...." because reality is it's not gonna be tax payers paying for Student Loan forgiveness, it's not, because that would require a balanced fed. budget which we are just a few trillion away from. So it's going to be added inflation, more $$$$ "shazamed" into existence. Again. 

Your argument, Lol, you point out I said " many accounts will now be at $0" and go on to say 8 million accounts will be brought to $0. As to argue it's "only" 8 million? Last i checked, 8 million firmly qualifies as "a lot".  Or 17% of all Student Loans, which again, I'd call that a lot, wouldn't you?

I am not arguing pro-S.L. forgiveness, not arguing pro or con really. Your argument was Student Loan forgiveness was some data-point proof of trouble in housing price, I simply point out that one item, it actually does the opposite. 

In the grand scheme of things, Student Loan forgiveness seems to me as the best, smartest entitlement program in contrast with all the others. It's at least rewarding those who have at some level at least attempted to do something, right? I mean, vs another handout for, IDK, free cell phones, or how about free internet for all, it's the smartest dumb thing done. 

If this whole thing get's you all ruffled you should go on and actually read through the annual budget at things like how much $ is being spent to study the migration patterns of Canadian Geese, lol. And yeah, wish that was a joke, it's not. And there is a mountain of similar moronic spending. 

As for wages, what the heck are you talking about? Where do you invent this nonsense that wages have been DROPPING since covid?! That's just patently NOT TRUE. Most the nation, MOST industries, MOST employers have been struggling to hire people including pressing $/bribes up and up and up.    maybe in whatever Inuit village of the arctic where your at, but for majority of populated North America it's a totally different story. 

Your wage statement is an oxymoron, feel free to make that the word of the day, OXYMORON. A good example: "....since inflation is raging, wages are lower......", Oxymoron

Hey James, I think what he means is "real wages". So you get a pay raise of 5% but inflation is being reported at 8% means your real wages are -3%. So yes wages are up, but not up enough to combat inflation. See article below from July of this year stating that. 


Inflation erasing wage gains, forcing pay cuts for American workers (nypost.com)


Post: Lumber Prices Down almost 50% YTD

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
  • Lender
  • Southwest Georgia
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 253

Quick update:

Lumber is down to levels not seen in over two years. Good news for anyone in the middle of rehab project, but sure sign demand is slowing. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
  • Lender
  • Southwest Georgia
  • Posts 290
  • Votes 253
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Joe Bertolino:
Quote from @John Carbone:

@Joe BertolinoI predict you will see a bunch of 2-1 buydown products securing 4% rates for 2 years and then in 2024/2025 people will refinance

What happens in 2026 if/when  home values are lower? Are these homebuyers with this product just going to be bag holders? Why not have 6-6 buy downs and let people get 1 percent mortgages, that will fix the issue. Will there be a government bailout forcing lenders to refi people at new lower rates with negative equity or will we have 2008 all over again? 

If rates creep back down will there be negative equity?  Will there be a huge influx of new construction to exceed demand?  Maybe I am out of touch here in Northern CA but I just don't see any homeowners that are really stretched to the point where this is a concern.  Those that are stretched are selling and pocketing equity.   Corelogic has an average equity per borrower of $300K and the national average LTV is 42%.  37% of homes are owned free and clear (Bloomberg).  I really am trying to see where a major crash would come from and these stats don't lead me there.  

 They don't get-it Joe, they just don't get it. 

It seems that there is such a blood-lust for a collapse in R.E., out of a desire to have been an investor in 2009, that anything and everything going on = "collapse" in peoples mind, it's tunnel-vision on shrooms, it really is. 

Firstly, Inflation = Inflation, not Deflation. Homes did not just go up in price, your dollar went DOWN in it's purchasing power. I have not heard 1 person argue how groceries are going to go down 20%. Housing is coined "The" hedge against inflation for a reason, and it's not because it devalues while everything else inflates. 

Next, and I still don't understand person's disconnect with this, we are at net SHORTAGE of housing, SHORTAGE. Now add that ingredient with INFLATION for all the things that go into making a home, the labor for everyone involved, the materials and tools they use, those cost's of inputs dictate the price to market. New unit costs will drop 20% when everything and everyone that makes on takes 20% less, it's not complicated.     The result of this math, is called STAGFLATION, high cost of an item with more limited purchasing of that item makes lower volume NOT collapse. 

And lastly the fun one also ignored all the time which is most are sitting on record high equity and liquidity. People in large part DON'T have to sell, at all. On average at least $100k of equity would have to be burned away AND then those occupants put into a financial crisis of income, and this is just to start to get in realm of potential for risk of foreclosure. Or in terms, 2008 collapse X3. It's a ridiculous notion. 

We also have a massive net shortage of rental units. This makes a nice "landing" buffer for builder's/developers for pivoting there activity. Some won't, some will just stop, or decrease volume. Others will adjust. Things could not be more different then 2007, everything is different in world of development today. 

A thought that high interest rates will collapse housing, please do the basic research of a little thing we call the '80's, rates hit 14% and guess what, no collapse. What did happen in the '80's was a setting of the stage for the bull-run of the 90's. 

We are in STAGFLATION. This fall/winter will see the lowest prices in R.E. for the next years to come. By Q2 of '23' housing shortage will press the leveling and bounce up in R.E. pricing, and as much as people will not like the price level, they will pay it because it's the cost of having a roof over there head, shelter in non-optional. 

And then, I predict political meddling to gain votes in the form of directing Fannie/Freddie to securitize and normalize the 40/50yr mortgage because, it gives feeling of affordability while not actually touching price. THAT's how housing becomes "affordable" again. That happens, median price will shoot up, yet again. I am betting there will also be something to address MBS purchases, but most will miss that point as it's over most persons heads but in truth that's where the whole issue of rates is coming from so most likely something done there. 

Now then, then you may get into a high leverage environment, setting the stage for a "collapse" of some type in or around "25-'27'. As it stands now, we have inflation with liquidity, that spells STAGFLATION if anything. 

Your long term solutions make sense, and that’s what’s likely to occur. It doesn’t change the fact that housing prices will drop substantially before that happens if rates stay high. 

serious question, do you know where I can lock in my home “equity” value right now for the next 2 years, so that if my properties lose value in 2 years the insurer will write me a check for the difference? I’d really like to find someone who has an insurance product like that with deep pockets. I wonder what the premium would be on that. Historically because housing always goes up, it should be very cheap insurance. 


 You may be joking or making this as a snarky comment but there is constructs and products that effect that very thing. I am not an insurance broker so I have no idea the cost of such, but they do exist. You forget, people have insured there leg's and breasts, lol, so yeah, such a thing exists to assure performance. 

20% drop is just not realistic, again to get that drop someone has to be willing to sell at 20% drop. In an environment where persons don't have to, why would they? 

I’d need the backing from someone like Lloyds of London for a policy like that, but my guess is the premium is substantial right now, if not their risk management has some leaks. Wow, a 20 percent drop is unheard of? What metric will you track for that? Again this is all on the premise that rates will stay high. If mortgage rates are still 7 percent this time next year you will be selling homes for a minimum 20 percent less than the peak. 

I’m on mailing lists across the country from developers and home builders. They are already offering 10 percent off in incentives on new construction. 

Why would someone sell for less? Your missing this simple key point, why does a person sell for less? Most don't have to, so why would one? It's not complicated. 

As for 7% rates, pull up some charts, it's not all that high, it isn't, it's more a normal rate. Your just contracting it against insanely historically low low's of 3%, which was a bubble, rates were artificially low. We are now back to a normalized level.     Again, I reference the '80's, check out those rates of 12%+, and please find the corresponding market "crash". Your arguing 20% drop at 7%, ok, so in the '80's why didn't we see a 30% drop at 14%? 

People are sitting on mountains of equity, they don't have to sell. 

Home builder incentives, I was getting those last year on pre-sales, nothing new there. 

And you will note I keep saying STAGFLATION, which is low volume. I expect to see lower volume, which is exactly what your saying for builders offering incentives openly. Do you think there gonna just keep building at same rate? Your whole argument is based on builders have to keep building, at a net loss, and home owners have to keep selling, at lower and lower prices.     COMPLETLY ignoring the fact that NO, builders DON'T have to keep building, NO most home owners DON'T have to sell.     In 2009 people HAD to sell, they had to due to being in high leverage positions and loosing income, AND the BIGGEST reason was the re-setting of mortgage payments doubling, tripling a persons mortgage payment from what it was before. They got into payment structures they NEVER had capacity to pay, that was #1 driver.     

Again, that does NOT exist today. There is NOT a mountain of mortgage payments re-setting to double/triple payment level. 

So people will simply stay put, buy less, move less. For the 97th time, STAGFLATION! 

The obsession with collapse is NOT supported by the facts. Sure, your emotions maybe, but not FACTS. 


 I agree with your sentiment regarding Stagflation and think that is the most likely scenario, but lets play that out. Say we get stagflation and homes prices don't come down along with other major purchases. US Businesses will have to deal with higher input costs and higher financing costs cutting profits. This cutting of profits will then lead to layoffs. So if unemployment goes up from 3.7% to say 5% and rates stay high this could cause some distress in the market. Let me also say that unemployment going to 5% is the best case scenario and it could go higher. 

So now you have a slowing US and Global economy, unemployment rising, and increased borrowing costs. Don't know of any asset that will be safe in a situation like that, including housing. Its not going to happen overnight; remember the peak to trough of the last recession was over 18 months. 

But if Stagflation happens every investor will suffer if not prepared. 

Post: FED finally admits we're in for a correction. Thoughts?

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
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Quote from @Russell Brazil:

And a pretty shocking correlation is that 6 month increase in the money supply starting in Feb 2020 was right about 30%.  

So did home values even rise a single dollar.....or did they stay exactly the same, and merely the printing of money devalued the dollar by the same exact amount as the money supply increase.


 A good friend told me recently when I sold a home for profit, houses are not appreciating, they are inflating. So I 1000% agree that the money supply has caused the inflation in housing prices. However; if you believe this with me then you would assume that a shrinking of the money supply will cause the shrinking of home prices. Which is what the FED is on a mission to do. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

J. Mitchell BernierPosted
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Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @John Myers:

Very lively conversation and let's face it, nobody knows what is going to happen.  That includes me!

Several posts have stated the housing market now is different from 2008. That is true, however, I always worry when someone tells me "it is different this time.

Inflation is high and not going to end any time soon. This is typically good for hard assets like gold, silver, real estate, etc.........

Interest rates are increasing, this is bad for almost every person and every business.

There is definitely a scenario for a crash in the housing market. That scenario is a crash in the economy and high unemployment. The CEO of FedEx gave a dire outlook on their business. If their business is down, guess what, so are a lot of other businesses.

Many Americans live paycheck to paycheck. If they lose their jobs, they will lose their houses (unless the government steps in). They may have equity so they can sell their houses if there are willing buyers.

That is above what I've been keep saying.

Inflation is like "oooh my used car" is now more expensive than new-car. That's supply-chain issue context.
To fix it, you need the supply chain economy to be recovered completely after covid from US to China as semi supplier.

Now the Fed solution for your "car problem" is by forcing you "to lose your job" so you will lose your truck entirely. hahaha LOL 

It seems for whatever minor problem here and there, the solution is just either to print more money or to burn more money. 

I dont think 21st century economy works like that anymore. If you have supply chain issue fix the problem at the supply side and not cutting the entire financial structure.
 


 Think about this Carlos. 

They say raising rates, tanking the overall economy will "fix" supply issues. That makes 0 sense, because there saying they need to slow the economy, and supply issues. Doesn't supply issues slow the economy?????? You can't buy, what you can't buy, right. 

It's an oxymoron what Fed is saying on that line. If such a supply issue where people can't buy things, how is there over-heated action from too much commerce (ie buying). Lol, it makes 0 sense, it cancels itself. 

It simply highlights the fact they don't know what's going on or what to do and simply following the playbook vs creating a play. 

Free market solves supply chain issues, it does, if left alone. When an item is in demand and supply is constrained, others emerge to fulfill that gap, yes? They know this, they did it with fuel! When prices went nuts, they released from strategic reserve, so why are they not doing similar on all else? Get the SBA the ability to empower more startups in that sector, and like magic, more supply comes into existence. 

And the Fed did say this week a problem is people have too much liquidity, THAT I believe is the real focus. 

This is just the next chapter in the war on the middle class. The surf class/ poverty class is in large part unaffected, there existence is subsidized right, none of the 87k auditors is looking at them, no. 

You can't issue trillions into existence without inflation, it's so basic, but they said no it won't do any, then oh it's "transient" lol, apparently just passing through, now a crisis. Once enough people are smashed down, watch, they will offer the cure, and it will be via loans of some kind, i guarantee it. 40/50yr mortgage is coming, no doubt.    


 I have been telling friends and other investors that don't be surprised to see over the next decade the agenda of "Housing is a Right", just like they did with healthcare. This I think will be the next big push on providing govt assistance for housing for almost everyone. Which means housing will get more expensive.