All Forum Posts by: Jim Goebel

@Wyatt Franta

For me it's incredibly fulfilling but it's largely because of the transition to being an entrepreneur (vs. working at an A/E professional services firm).  My wife just left her W-2 job recently and that was a major life decision for us.  I feel my background and efforts in design have helped enable that.

Further commentary:

A lot of the pure REVIT skills are being used as 'CAD monkeys' by industry, even when users have the degrees and are on the professional track to get their license, etc.  I view it as useful, to some extent, but the primary use is a bit more sinister - sure, REVIT helps avoid trade conflicts, but its primary business purpose is to turn the workforce into a commodity.  This gets back to the back and forth that Jared and I are having.  A lot of principals have 'skin in the game' to sell REVIT to their customers (part of their value proposition for that $25,000 price point).  However, a secondary (or primary) purpose of having a REVIT cool aided workforce is that these workers are less prepared to moonlight and be future competition.

Oddly enough I practice engineering only when needed so I stop/re-start the basic Autocad LT license as needed, but just got an email/job today and if there is any design needed, the simplest way to do it will be to do the calcs and then just do a sketch or two on graph paper.

I'd fully support that method of learning you mention in school - and I'd suggest supplementing / getting your CAD skills on your own by paying for the most basic AutoCAD LT license you can get.

While I think Jared and I disagree I do respect him and what I'd bet he can do, and I think the back and forth hopefully provides some value to others reading.

@Jared W Smith

The 'you get what you pay for' experiment:

Jared, if YOU get what you pay for, how about you pay me $1000 for a minute of my time on the phone?  You get what you pay for, after all.

A professional license is what it is. E&O insurance comes in to play in cases of negligence. If one is planning to hire someone that's negligent, and doesn't employ critical thinking skills enough to vet them and their product/process, I'd suggest doing something else other than real estate investing.

@Jared W Smith

There's lots of A/E professionals working for their professional services firms that have the ability to do this kind of work for far, far less than the 'full cost burdened plus markup of 2-3-400%' of that $25k that was thrown out.  I could drive to 5 firms in just about any major market and while the principals may not let me in the door if they know I'm soliciting their workers for moonlighting, these people exist and are eager for this kind of work.

Some of these folks have signed non competes; most of these body shops have not.  Just like any field, the entrepreneurial professional has something to gain by not 'working for the man' and the OP has something to gain by finding this person.

Granted, they may not find me, but my point in the 40-80 hours is that this is the time it takes to prepare this stuff.  There's very little cost (an AutoCAD LT license is l $50/mo) beyond the professional's time.  I don't know in what world we think that the 80 hours (top end estimate) could be worth $300+/hr, which is what the math comes to.  When you think about the fact that there's HUNDREDS of professionals doing similar stuff day to day in a major market, that work for anywhere from $20-40/hr, the OP just has the simple challenge of finding those people.

@Jared W Smith

What is risky at best about learning to use CAD and saving a bunch of money putting plans together?  Anyone can do it.

@Shaun Fogarty

Yes, the entire thing - as in my 40-80 hours covered everything as far as the design.  This is with a 900 sq ft project.  When I draw up plans, I shoot for the concept of minimally viable product.  I value my time, and I don't produce any extraneous details - and I do the CAD myself - because I'm an investor, in this case, I'm using the product.  There MAY be added value in SOME details that an architect might produce, however I'm dubious.  Anyone can be resourceful when it comes to finish selections, and when one is paying $10,000 for something where it's unclear what the value add before starting...  Just not a good recipe.  

@Mike Hyder

Good anecdote. I suspect there was some 'funny business' and unethical behavior driving what you observed with your FSBO. It's unfortunate but par for the course, I guess. Established business interests getting threatened, coupled with collusion, etc.

@Scott Wolf

I'd tend to agree with the sentiment.  It'll be my wife's call at the end of the day.  I'd say I'm leaning towards getting options with brokers, etc - however I'm not sure if we'll be able to do that before the current $150-180k house listing we have coming up in a couple months comes online.  We also have a good relationship with a C21 agent that we'd like to be loyal to and reward for his help, somehow - so that's a factor for sure.

@Jonathan Greene

@Charlie Cameron

I appreciate the perspective, however I, like Charlie, had a good experience in my first FSBO. I got about 95% of list price, and it only took a few months on that one. A single data point, sure, but point by point many of the FSBO platforms offer everything you're listing out there that a traditional brokerage does. Many FSBO list services DO get on the MLS, by the way. Scheduled showings, sure.

Regarding steering, I'm referring to the buy side impact, not the sell side impact. I can be swayed by your 'facts' however I'd need to see DATA to back up the claim that non FSBOs do better. I'm dubious when there's usually at least 3% cost in the form of seller side commissions that is not present in the FSBO that would otherwise be present in an agent/agent deal. Bigger pie for buyer and seller!

@Kevin Sobilo

Thanks Kevin, good info!

We'll give EXP a look as we explore more.  We're frugal and independent so this sounds like perhaps a fit.  

@Jay Hinrichs

Finding a shop that'd be happy with just a $500 flat fee per transaction would be wonderful.  Any tips on finding something like that in Iowa/the mid-west?  

We're evaluating options as we think about integrating a flip or two per year, in addition to our buy and hold efforts.  In doing so, we're wondering what typical broker/agent splits are.

Also I'd be curious on folks' candid opinions on the amount of steering that happens by realtors AWAY from FSBO listings. I know they're not supposed to, but we're evaluating options in listing these properties - and I'd be surprised if demand from real estate agents and their buyers was 100% the same for FSBO listings as for MLS listings given the competing business model, and all.

@Sacha LaCoss

I'd not use security deposits as a profit center, personally.  Find someone you like/trust to do the work, and get them to invoice you for their work, so that you can defend it if challenged.

@Mindy Jensen

Hi Mindy, caveat all this with I've not taken any kind of classes and have no certification on asbestos, but we have re mediated and disposed of some items that tested positive on a rehab.  I don't foresee any issues with this whatsoever, especially when using a traditional drywall jack to install.  This installation method would not disturb what's there in a serious way, as the new gypsum would be pressed up against what's there.

My understanding is that it's a common and accepted practice to cover up some forms of asbestos, for instance, layering new tape on top of the old white asbestos duct-work insulation I believe is a common approach.  One of the risks for the 'next person' of course is that they need to hopefully either be made aware what's underneath, when/if a demolition occurs. 

For your application - I'd think it may be a good step to ensure the installer is aware of the presence of the material and is adequately aware/trained to handle - would be good steps to reduce exposure for your clients (both possible legal and actual).

Hope this is helpful!

@Jacob Rogers

PM skills are a must.  The ability to communicate - on the 3 responsibilities of scope, schedule, and budget are important.

That said, I tend to like dealing with someone with a deep labor background who can grow and shows what they need to on the communication of those above items, rather than the reverse.  A pure PM may not have the requisite construction experience to add value.  But yes, I value those skills highly and would even pay significantly more for their contributions.