All Forum Posts by: Jennifer Donley

I'm down the road from you!  

I'm in line with most of the other advice you've gotten.

1.  I always have professional photos taken and always when it's vacant.

2. I use the best interior photo that I have - usually the kitchen or living room with lots of light - as the first photo.  

3.  I think your rent is at market at best & possibly too high.  Rentometer says average within a mile is $1145 and 75th percentile is $1284.  There are 2 other Zillow listings relatively close that are lower and 1 has an additional bedroom.

4.  I'd recommend using Facebook marketplace as well - it's a very successful way to advertise here in St. Louis.

5.  When I talk to other landlords who tell me they're having trouble leasing a property, and we've covered all of the above, there is usually a process issue as well.  Something along the lines of - it's difficult for people to schedule to view the property, landlord is taking too long to get back to people, there's a full application to view the property, etc.

6. Finally, if you have people who are interested, ask for their feedback - why did they call/inquire, what did they find helpful, what could be better, etc? 

There is a shortage of housing here as almost everywhere so there's a reason you're having trouble, just have to figure it out.  Let me know if I can help further.

@Chelsea Meyer, I don't get the leases until the property is under contract.  But I stipulate in the contract that I must have the lease within 5 days of acceptance and I will notify if sufficient within 10 days.  You have to have the lease as part of your due diligence because you are taking it over and all of its obligations.  If they won't give it to me, it's a no go.

I'd be surprised if the HA would give you the HAP since you aren't yet the owner - I don't think they would here but the current owner or PM should have it. If they don't, they can request it to provide it to you.

The HAP documents and/or the most recent amendment are crucial and should match up with what you're seeing on the ledger.  Let me know if you have more questions.

@Nadir M. shoot - that pesky apostrophe!  I meant to put can't.  

I wouldn't think you're under any obligation to renew unless there are some sort of local laws that require extra notice or something. 

My checklist for purchasing an occupied property:

• Signed Lease
• Rent ledger for last 2 years but most important for last 12 months
• Occupancy permit (something we have here in St. Louis in almost all areas)
• If a Section 8 tenant (which should be clear in the ledger if not already disclosed) - the signed HAP and/or the most recent HAP amendment/notice of change (whichever is newer) 

Also require satisfactory walk through & inspection.  

It's interesting - I see a lot of people talk about estoppel agreements and they make a ton of sense but they're just not something anyone here requests.

During the walk through, I do like for the tenant to be there and I ask them - any maintenance issues?  What's your rent again?  Who pays for the different utilities?  

As a side note - I've also noticed that inherited tenants do tend to be a bit needy at first (my new move ins are sometimes too).  I have found this is usually a way to either get ignored repairs completed (if inherited) or test out whether we're actually going to be good property managers (both scenarios).  It usually settles down after a month or two as long as there isn't too much deferred maintenance.

And no, you can evict for neediness :).  Only lease violations and I'm sure that's not in your lease!

@Nick Sanders and @Michael Pirrello and @Brandon Rush - jumping in to offer a suggestion.  I don't use Tenant Cloud, I use RentecDirect but something I would recommend for your Section 8 tenants - enter them into your PM software as if they are 2 completely different tenants responsible for their own rent and not responsible for the other.  

In Rentec, when I add a new tenant to a property where there is already a tenant in place, I can choose whether to group them together or separately.  I choose separate and then their ledgers are not intertwined. If your software doesn't offer that option, I would create 2 properties and call one 123 Main Street and the other 123 Main Street Section 8.

This reduces a ton of issues - your tenant wont' get confused on why they're getting notifications or whatever for the Section 8 portion; if the tenant is late on rent, you can automate late charges for them alone; if there are any bill backs (utilities, damages, etc.), the tenant only sees those; and the ledgers are much, much cleaner this way.  An intertwined ledger can get extremely messy, especially when the tenant and Section 8 portions are similar or when the tenant makes late and/or partial payments on their portion.  It starts to take a detective to figure out when the problems started and whose fault it was.

It's an issue in all rental niches and probably more so in C and D neighborhoods so by this fact alone, you're also going to deal it with it a fair bit with Section 8 tenants. It can be hard to prove that someone is living there, although we do semi-annual inspections and can usually spot it.

My rule of thumb is this for all tenants, regardless of their income source- if the lease is otherwise followed, the rent is paid, the house is taken care of and we don't have any issues, I don't go after a tenant just for this alone.  But if there are issues, we notify the tenant that the person cannot live there and if we find them living there in the future, we will move for eviction and notify the Section 8 caseworker.  Luckily here, our Housing Authorities are very supportive of landlords in these kinds of situations and the tenant can lose their voucher.

@Dame Notnow, Cara is right.  Section 8 dictates who can live in a property, it's listed on the paperwork the Sectin 8 tenant receives and the tenant cannot allow others to live there.  If it's found out, the tenant can lose their voucher.

I'm with Scott on this one.  I just answered another poster on this topic.   There are TONS of discussion threads about this here on BP, just put Section 8 into the search query.

Very high level:

I love it for the guaranteed rent, higher rents (sometimes), long tenancies, added accountability for tenants through the housing authority and enormous supply/demand gap (there is a lot more demand than supply in most places for s8 housing).

People often dislike it because the housing authority can be tough to deal with (this varies widely from one county to the next because it's administered locally), rents can be too low in certain areas (usually A areas) and there is a perception that the tenants are awful.

I've found that extremely thorough screening negates the last issue. The first 2 can be problematic depending on your area.

Also, people who are not detail oriented and try to to self manage can struggle with S8 because there is more red tape and paperwork. If you're process oriented and good with details this isn't usually an issue.

In regard to the inspections, they can add cost to your maintenance expenses.  Anything that the tenant is responsible for, we typically fix and then bill back to the tenant.  Our Housing Authority is very supportive of us on this, which is helpful.  Plus, I know that even if they go to move out down the road but still owe us money, we will notify the S8 caseworker which can put their abilty to move in jeopardy.

Feel free to reach out if I can help further.

I agree with Brian here - there are so so so many posts on Section 8 and people have very passionate opinions on the topic.

Very high level:

I love it for the guaranteed rent, higher rents (sometimes), long tenancies, added accountability for tenants through the housing authority and enormous supply/demand gap (there is a lot more demand than supply in most places for s8 housing).

People often dislike it because the housing authority can be tough to deal with (this varies widely from one county to the next because it's administered locally), rents can be too low in certain areas (usually A areas) and there is a perception that the tenants are awful.

I've found that extremely thorough screening negates the last issue.  The first 2 can be problematic depending on your area.

Also, people who are not detail oriented and try to to self manage can struggle with S8 because there is more red tape and paperwork.  If you're process oriented and good with details this isn't usually an issue.

Feel free to reach out if i can help further.

Hi Tony - you have to follow whatever your lease says as well as any local laws that would supersede.  I have heard of laws in some states that have a different requirement notice for tenants receiving assistance but here in MO, we have to follow state laws and our own lease just like they're market tenants.