All Forum Posts by: Jennifer Donley

@Heather Canoles, your lease is with the tenants and the HAP contract is an addendum. The tenants are responsible for the rent ultimately.

Even though the voucher is in the husband's name, the wife should be listed on the HAP contract as a resident.  I would recommend contacting the man's caseworker to get clarity from the Housing Authority on what will happen and what they recommend.

If it turns out the husband's not coming back, then at least you know the facts and can make the best decision possible for you.  If it were me and the wife is going to be left at the house unable to pay rent, I would work with her to get her out, as politely and professionally as possible.

I only take Section 8 and I've never had this specific situation happen - do you mind to keep me/us updated so we can learn as a community?

@Isaac El, you can do it anywhere.  Section 8 is a federally funded program administered locally by a Public Housing Authority, so you may have different Public Housing Authorities to deal with depending on where you're at (I have 2 here in St. Louis that I work with, for instance).  

While the general structure and rules are the same nationally, each PHA will have their own little differences, particularly when it comes to setting rents, timing for rent increase requests, and inspection frequency and difficulty.

It is not against federal housing laws not to take Section 8 but it can be against it not to based on a state or city law (in these cases, it is usually against the law to not take Section 8 AND it's against the law to do what I do, which is only take Section 8 because you can't discriminate based on "source of income").  

As mentioned above, Section 8 rents are usually in line with market rents in B, C and D areas. They can even be a little above market rents, particularly in C and D areas. However, they will generally be below market rents in A areas because there is a ceiling on the amount that HUD will pay in rent, determined by your area's Fair Market Rent.

A lot of people end up hating Section 8 because they don't execute on it as well as they could.  It takes meticulous tenant screening (which I would do anyway), solid processes & attention to detail to do well.  I think it's worth it given the guaranteed rent and stability that it provides but it's not for everyone.

Also, there are great Section 8 tenants out there so my approach is to provide one of the nicest properties in the neighborhood - that way I attract a large number of applicants quickly and I can then pick the top one to live in my property.

I always love this question because it gets such varied responses.  I love Section 8, it's all I do.

I can't disagree with anything anyone has said here.  There are 5 main reasons I like Section 8:

1. Guaranteed Rent - even if the tenants pay a portion of their rent, and most of mine do, I don't have to chase it because if the tenant gets evicted, they can lose their voucher. I am currently owed $0 in rent from my Section 8 portfolio.

2. Higher Rents - in some of my areas, I get slightly higher rents that I would from market tenants.  Not always and I never count on it.  The rents are supposed to be comparable to market rents up to the Fair Market Rent amount but here, our HAs use different comp systems than I do so sometimes they come back with amounts that I wouldn't expect.

3. Long tenancies - generally, Section 8 tenants will stay longer because the processes to move are difficult.

4. Extra layer of accountability - the tenants have to follow your lease and if they break it and/or get evicted, they put their voucher at risk.  So pick good tenants and they will follow the rules.

5. Supply & Demand - the demand for quality S8 housing is very high and the supply is nowhere near enough (also a reason people stay put). So I've found that if I have one of the nicest properties in the area, I get a ton of interest (not uncommon for me to get 30 showings in a weekend and 10 applications).  That allows me to be very picky about who I pick to rent.

Good luck, let me know if I can help further!

@Collin Bryston Adams Section 8 is all I do.  For some of my properties, I get above market rents.  A couple are WAY above market rents for some weird reason.

Here's the potential trouble, as others have mentioned.  You have 1 very narrow exit strategy that is dependent on another entity never changing course.  Typically, Section 8 rents are set based on rent reasonableness or comparables in the area, in our area up to a quarter of a mile.  So I'm thinking that you may have a high comp that your HA is using.  If that comp ages out or the HA changes how they determine the rent, you could be in trouble. 

Even though I only rent to Section 8tenants, I always assume market rents for my Section 8 properties because I never know when things may change and I don't want to be left with a property that has negative cash flow and I'm underwater on.

@Campbell Agyei, your local HA will probably have docs on their website for change of ownership and how to send them in.  If they require a deed with a seal from the recorder and you don't have that yet, I just send the settlement statement and ask the caseworker to stop all payments to other owner until I can send the deed.

I am pretty relentless with the people at the HA - I email usually daily to every other day until they confirm the change has been made. I'm always polite but I want to get in writing from them that they've made the change so that if I don't get paid on the first month I should, I have in writing that I did everything I was supposed to do.

Your tenant can use their own appliances, I would write a lease addendum making clear that the appliances are hers so maintenance is as well.  When you fill out the new Housing Authority docs, you may have to indicate who's paying for what and with this change, at the lease renewal, the rent may go down.  So it's up to you on how you want to handle that.  

@Matthew Johnson, I'm not in VA but am a Section 8 only landlord in St. Louis. While there are some variances county to county, the basic rules are the same country wide.

I have really good tenants and they don't trash their places.  I screen meticulously including a home visit as the last step of the screening process (note - do exactly the same process for market and Section 8 tenants on screening or you will run afoul of Fair Housing).

Some counties have created an insurance program of sorts for landords if tenants trash a place that requires repairs beyond the deposit but there's nothing countrywide.

However, there are absolutely remedies for landlords with Section 8 tenants.  It of course starts with good screening.  

At the end of the lease, you get the opportunity to sign off on a "Good Standing Certification" where you indicate i the tenant is in good standing or not. If they owe you money or have done damage to the property beyond normal wear and tear and what the deposit will cover, you can indicate that they are not in good standing (with proof of course).

If they aren't in good standing with you, they can't get a voucher to move somewhere else.  That doesn't mean you ahve to keep them in your property - you can make them leave like any other tenants.

I find that tenants do not want to lose their voucher so they will usually fix or pay whatever is needed.  The problem is that few landlords are diligent in sending this doc in so tenants keep their voucher even if they're bad tenants.

As for the deposit - again, treat the tenants exactly as you would market tenants if you take them.  Here's the tough part - you probably won't know the first month's rent until you're into the Section 8 process a ways - usually after the inspection.  So it's tough to give the tenants a number if that's what you're using.

What I do is this - my average 3 bedroom rent is about $1050.  So, I just charge $1000 security deposit for all my properties (they're almost all 3 bedroom).  It's simple and easy and I don't have to remember the amounts from house to house.

Section 8 is great but there is a learning curve.  I answer a lot of questions on here about it if you want to check my profile and Forum responses, I think it will help you get answers to questions you didn't know to ask.

Good luck, let me know if I can help further.

@Noam Birnbaum, yes I have lots to say on this!  Section 8 is all I do.  I have a meticulous screening process and have really good tenants who take care of my properties.

First and foremost in big bold letters because it's super important- YOU MUST TREAT ALL APPLICANTS THE SAME SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A FAIR HOUSING ISSUE.  You can't have a different screening process for Section 8 tenants than market tenants, is what I mean.  

With 1 exception - source of income with which you pay rent.  So, you could require 3x the rent for market tenants and have a different standard for Section 8 tenants because their source of income is covered.  I still require my S8 tenants to have at least $1000 income (my average rent is about $1060 so it's close to 1 months rent).

So set your standard for credit - it doesn't have to require a set credit score.  Instead, I require mostly positive payment history in the last 2 years, no recent bankruptcies, no collections to previous landlords, and if they owe $ to the utility companies, it's got to paid before I will move forward. 

A home visit is the last step of my screening process.  It was when I took market tenants too.  A large RE firm here in St. Louis has over 250 doors and take no Section 8 and they do home visits too.  I can't recommend this step enough.  You will not completely know how your place will look when the tenants leave unless you see how they live now.  I've declined 4 applicants in the last year due to the home visit.  They had great landlord references, solid credit history, etc. but their houses were disgusting.  The prior landlords or PMs often hadn't been in them for years so they really had no idea.

Conversely, I've approved 3 different tenants who met my screening criteria but weren't as strong as the declines on paper.  However, they kept meticulous care of their current properties and are some of my best tenants.

I make clear in my initial paperwork, in the rental listing, etc. that a home visit is required in the screening.  I've only had 1 person refuse and it was because she was living with her grandma who didn't want strangers in the house due to COVID.  She probably would've been a great tenant but i'll never know because we just won't move forward without it.

One more thing - here, there are very few PMs (in fact, maybe none) who are good with Section 8.  It's a great program but it does require some extra legwork and paperwork, especially up front.  So I'd just recommend to make sure your PM has extensive, successful experience with Section 8.

I answer lots of questions on here about Section 8 so feel free to check my profile and the answers to other questions that you may not know to ask yet.

Good luck!

Yes I think all of the commercial banks do.  

@David Pham in general if I have a question about the voucher, I email the listed caseworker or whoever the applicant tells me their caseworker is (if it’s not listed- it usually is of course).

Caseworker emails are listed on the HA websites.

I have seen some vouchers lacking info probably due to caseworker oversight, yes.

I'm a St. Louis local REI. It's a big market so hard to answer your questions unless I know your plans & goals. In general though, landlord/tenant laws are pretty landlord friendly in Missouri. Conservative state politically usually means more landlord friendly.

Although anywhere is suspectible to eviction moratoriums right now and we are no different. Here in St. Louis, even if the CDC didn't have their moratoriums in place, we're unable to evict (in St. Louis city) or enforce evictions (St. Louis county) due to sheriffs office not enforcing.

That's what I love Section 8 - my rents are paid!  Anyway, feel free to reach out/inbox me to set up a time to connect.