All Forum Posts by: Jeff S.

Great thread.  I too was originally surprised how strongly anti-smoker BP seems to be.  But after reading this thread it makes more sense.

Long ago my wife and I lived in a MF apartment.  Our neighbor smoked in her unit.  We could literally tell when she lit up.  I have no idea how the smell got through (electrical conduit? ) but it was distinctly noticeable.

This was not *the* reason we didn't renew, but was one of them.

As for vapes, I don't see a problem - no butts, no burns, no stink.  I've hung out with friends vaping indoors and couldn't smell it.

Hi Henderson, 

Apart from the technical issues of getting the loan, you really need to be realistic about being a first-time home owner: it takes money.  Living in a house means that *you* have to take care of everything.  Apart from the big  what-ifs (HVC, roof,... ) you also have to clean gutters, mow grass, fix holes in the wall, etc.

Do you own a lawnmower, hoses, ladders, power tools, all the stuff you need for patching and painting ? The list goes on and on. When I got my first house I was amazed at how much new "stuff" I had to buy.  In the long run home ownership is a great deal, but at first there's a lot of unexpected costs.  Even if everything goes right (fingers crossed) you should still have cash for the little things - there are a *lot* of little things.

Hi Noel,

IF you plan to occupy the house, I believe you can use a 203(k) loan.  This will include the purchase price plus the cost of conversion all in one low-down-payment loam .  If the conversion cost is under $35k, it is simpler.

Yeah, I love the idea of room-renting as a way of house-hacking, but I think I'm just a little to old and set in my ways.  I always recommend that to young people, though.  They're much more adaptable and it's a more common way of life.

Welcome, Nic

I visited Bend and it's an awesome little town. I imagine that owning a bit of RE there has not been too, too hard on you....

It sounds like you're well aware of the advantages of frugal living.  If you don't need 7 figures and tons of tinsel and prestige, why not pay down your debt agressively and enjoy life?  

And in the meantime, here's a virtual coupon for a tasty fresh Deschutes beverage of your choice.  Offer void where prohibited.  Some restrictions apply.  Must be over 21 years of age.

Thanks, Matt.

It's funny, but in my mind I still see a huge gulf between a duplex and a fourplex. In a duplex, I'm just a next-door-neighbor, maybe 10-20 feet closer than a SFH in a "cozy" neighborhood. The 4plexes I've seen are scarrier: like a mini-apartment-complex where I am "the Man". In my mind I'd totally be open with a duplex neighbor that I'm the owner, just trying to get a leg up on retirement, yada yada yada. But in a 4plex, I've even imagined going incognito, even hiring a PM from the get-go.

Again, for me it's all about the vibe.  I've seen (just lost one deal) duplexes that would be totally awesome to live in.  Fourplexes, so far, have a little bit more of a down-market, rough kind of feel. Financially, a pricey 4plex with appreciation potential would be ideal, but I haven't seen that around these parts.

BTW, my market is Colorado Springs.  Not quite the Denver Dynamo, but not quite Detroit either.  People don't *need* to live in a 4plex to get by, but they still do. Who are they?  What is it like living next door? 

So I totally get the numbers. It is a fantastic deal, especially for a beginner. But beyond the numbers, I'm wondering what it's really like. What kind of people choose a duplex/triplex/fourplex over an apartment or SFH? What is is it like living so close to your tenants? What are the 3 things potential house-hackers should know? (And by 3 I mean as many as you can think of.) What is the weirdest/scariest/best/worst thing that happened to you? Basically I'm looking for a reality check.

AFM, I'm just over 50, single, and find I don't really need a ton of space or prestige in my home situation.  But I do want my home (even if just for a year) to have a positive vibe about it. My current neighborhood is a 50/50 mix of renters and owners, with a broad mix of incomes and educations - I like that.  I'm trying to avoid the "4-plex ghettos" that are common in my city.  Ideally, I would like a MFH in a "real" neighborhood, like where I live now.

Anway, let's have it.  What say ye house-hacking veterans ?

Hunter, for at least as long as writing has existed, one thing has been true about being young:  you can't learn by simply listening to your elders, you have to learn things the hard way, all by youself.  So don't feel bad about anything that you've done.  Life just "dropped some education" on you, and all in all you're quite lucky to be where you are.

Please, please don't think you can just stride out there with no knowledge, money, credit, network, experience, or credentials and just be a success in real estate without some kind of day job.

As has been said already, you need to have income to have good credit.  And without a stable income, you are under a lot of pressure and will undoubtedly make *bad* decisions. (BTDT).  So spend your time now working on your RE education, but also on getting a day job.

It sounds like you may have seen the light on this one, but just in case: spending money on consumer cr@p is the road to poverty and dependence. The janitor who empties my trash drives a newer, shinier car than I do. He will die poor.  People here toss around $200/mo as a good (great) net cash flow on an income property.  And those all have risk.  If you can reduce your "needs" by $200/mo you have accomplished the same thing, and more.

So what is step #2 (after getting that job) ?  I'd say house hacking.  Maybe you can't find a duplex/4plex, but you can aim to buy (or even rent) a house and rent out rooms.  With your housing cost reduced/eliminated you have an engine of savings that can take you to the next level.  Old people with spouses and kids and reputations and whatnot don't always have that option.

Good luck to you!

I had a "previous life" as a landlord which didn't go so well.  Most of my mistakes were "classic" stuff you'll read about here on BP.

1) Never assume RENT - PITI = PROFITS. I can't say I trust the 50% "rule", but the fact that so many people regard it as a good starting point should tell you something.

2) Don't be a Nice Guy. I'm not saying you need to be unfriendly, but think of yourself (and conduct yourself) like a good Parent or Schoolteacher or Platoon Leader and NOT as a friend. A lot of tenants, even the "good" people, can make little mistakes that could torpedo your success. A good REI or PM is a good disciplinarian.

3) Related to  #2 : Always factor in the cost of having a property manager.  If you find being strong and parental isn't your thing, you better be ready to hand off the reins to someone who is.

4) Don't buy a "fun" project if you aren't an expert.  You might find out that that century-old carriage house in the back yard was built using 17 different kinds of asbestos.  Asbestos : one of the most amazing materials ever for so many, many practical uses...

5) Have a secure W2 job and a pile of reserves.  Stuff happens.

I think the pros/cons have been covered. 

Many, many years ago I bought a cheap condo as a rental and had a section 8 tenant.  She kept the place *very* clean and nicely decorated - much nicer than my own home.  For some reason, she was hesitant to call me about anything.  I would walk through, and something small (like say a thermostat) would be fixed or updated.  One time I noticed the HVAC blower was making noise and she didn't think it was bad enough to bother me about.  I had to *encourage* her to let me know when things needed attention!

I think one key to finding a tenant like this is to seek out someone who is GOING SOMEWHERE.  This young lady was going to college and had clear career goals.