@Account Closed
Your post speaks for itself: "I know the only way I can invest in this property is by having the owner remove the realtor."
Not sure how you can try and spin that statement.
I'll elaborate more.
I meant have the realtor remove the house from the listing if she cannot sell it. Is that illegal? I dont know If Im suppose to speak with the seller or the realtor. BUT I do know, taking a sale from a realtor under they're nose is illegal, You're taking away their commission. Thats why I said if you come across a house with a realtor be sure someone can pay their commission, wait until it expires or ask for it to be removed without it being a problem for the realtor...That is what Ron Legrange said. I am trying to figure out the correct way of dealing with realtors. How do other investors go about it. I was just assuming I had to talk to the seller(IDK the proper steps). Like I want you guys to correct me if something is wrong but not be so rude about it. Like im not trying to do anything RIGHT NOW or illegal. But people saying scammer and fraud, like no I dont run like that, relax....But im noticing im speaking to realtors/brokers, I was hoping to hear from investors point of view or a investor friendly realtor. I mean but if everyone read my previous post I said Ill wait until the listing expires, so everyone CALM DOWN! LOL
Lol Um thanks for your response. The name calling is a bit over board, Im still in the learning process and are willing to learn the 'dos and donts'... Im the furthest thing from a scammer so lets refrain from that. I would not do anything knowingly that would cause me to get into trouble with the law. I am just stating what I've been told here in Texas to do from an local investor...
With that being said I'll most likely wait until the listing expires and give this house to a rehabber because from the looks of it, it has been abandon for some time now. Id love to see this house blossom into its full potential. This house is in my neighborhood and I honestly would love to see it back in great condition.
Kind Regards.
A few thoughts....
FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS is ABSOLUTELY relevant. Lets look this over...
1. you stated you want to try and break up a contract between two parties ...a seller and broker...so that YOU can broker the deal. If a licensee, you would get your rear end in BIG trouble.
2. OK--you are new. I get it--everyone starts and learns as they go.
3. Now---you stated you want to broker the house. The term "wholesale" is a nice and innocuous--but in reality it IS brokering.
4. How WOULD you approach a seller. Would you sign a contract telling them you have NO intention of purchasing but want to broker the house for them? Isn't that EXACTLY what LICENSED agents do? So, your LISTING AGREEMENT would be DISGUISED as a purchase when IT WAS NOT. Is THAT honest?
5. Would a seller ACCEPT your offer and sign--knowing you have NO INTENTION of purchasing the house? I doubt it. This is why unlicensed FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS LIE to the seller and lead them to believe their house is sold--when in fact that is NOT THE CASE.
6. What do the FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS teach others to be successful FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS? To use BS escape clauses such as "subject to my partners approval" of "subject to inspection" with LONG inspection time frames. If they cannot find a buyer, they LIE to the seller and state it did not meet their "inspection criteria".
Here are some threads that are PERFECT examples of FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS teaching others to lie:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/139...
Note the person teach others to use BS escape clauses to get out of contracts.
Here is another:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/436...
They want to put properties under contract with NO INTENTION OF HONORING THEIR WORD.
So--do you intend to represent yourself as a buyer, and if you cannot assign, walk away? If so, you were NOT a buyer--you were a FRAUD AND SCAMMER.
You will find lots of advice in this business. Some good, some bad, some illegal, some unethical, and some outright DISHONEST.
Research FRAUD BY INDUCEMENT. We have a local unlicensed broker getting sued for that at this time.
How you choose to operate is up to you. Nobody can dictate that, but there are laws in place that may have an effect on your actions--either before you enter into a contract, or after.
BTW--Texas has new laws regarding unlicensed brokering and required disclosure. Each state is different. The way the FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS operate in FL is NOT legal..and many are finding out, getting a cease and desist with the state, or worse.
BTW--there are people that identify themselves as "wholesalers" that are FLIPPERS. They purchase and then resell with or without rehab.
Sorry, your feeling this way, but I will say you should try and go to an investor workshop. All the questions you're asking they've already answered. ...I never understood why people hate when someone wholesales, when literally hundreds has done it and were successful. If you dont like it then you should've never responded and take your negativity elsewhere, dont try and make others feel bad because you simply do not understand how the business works, because if you knew, you would not have all these questions and assumptions. Some people actually are very successful at wholesaling. Wholesaling is a strategy not a occupation. You cannot wholesale a pretty house. It is a useful tool for certain problems for the seller. Wholesalers mainly target preforcloused homes, vacant homes. Those are really where wholesale comes to play. It really helps those motivated sellers sell their house FAST!You're making a lot of assumptions about me that I wont entertain here, You're throwing out names and I legit haven't physically done anything with the house. LOL
Anyways- Yes we tell the seller our intentions. LOL no need to beat around the bush with it. You should always be honest about your intentions to the seller. We literally get the house inspected during our walk through. You ask the seller "Are you okay with this time frame" You have a team with you. Of course you find a buyer, and guess what..you bring the buyer with you as you both inspect it. Nothing is in contract yet. We are simply examining the house to see if its a house we can close on fast. But majority of my leads are not even connected to an realtor at all. I know an investor who walked in a house that that was vacant, absentee owner who were still paying payments on, they could not sell it...Guess what that investor did, wholesaled that house! He flipped that house. Got that absentee owner a check, got the rehabber a house to flip and got a tenant in there, and that investor got a check. I've seen wholesale deals close, I dont know how it can be a scam if there is an actual attorney involved at closing.
Some people dont want to pay realtor fees, some people do not want to wait months and months to sell the house. Which Ive seen and they go to an investor for other options. Thats were investors come in, examine their situation and decide how to fix their problem. You know those signs that says "WE BUY UGLY HOUSES" Yeah that is US! We help people, dont be so closed minded about investors, your literally letting money sit on the table.
A realtor and an investor are completely two different businesses. Im not a wholesaler, Im an investor. We use multiple strategies for multiple problems people may have. You can wholesale a vacant house, . I can tell your those people who arent into investing, but I know a few multi millionaires who became extremely successful at real estate investing, and I mean crazy rich, this man cashed a 40K check within a month.
Houses will get closed on, it should not take no longer than a month if you have a good deal. I meet so many at my local REIA, weather they did wholesale, sub to, house wrap, owner finance etc. An investor helped a friend of mine whose house was going to be foreclosed on, she couldn't get it to sell with an agent because it needed a lot of work. NO ONE wanted that house. So she actually had it subject to or wrapped around, cannot remember, which saved her from foreclosure( which foreclosure is the atomic bomb for credit.) Just imagine how she felt, she would have garnish wages, cannot buy a car, home etc.
I feel like your saying a lot of great things from a brokers stand point, but you fail to open your mind and educate yourself on other investing strategies. There is so much to real estate investing Id love to enlighten you on, but I simply do not have the time. I must say you really picked my brain sir with this one, but hey im just a newbie, what do I know!
Thanks for those articles. Ill give them a look.
Kind Regards! :)
Funny: you did NOT address one single fact. You posted you want to interfere with a contract, and broker the deal and you think that is an HONEST way to do business? You are BROKERING WITHOUT A LICENSE AT BEST. AT WORST...your posts speak for themselves. You don't need to tell me how you are the answer to all of peoples problems...I know better LOL! There is NOTHING you can do BETTER than a good qualified competent agent..even though that is the TYPICAL BS many of you claim. I've seen them all: "if it wasnt for ME--the owner would have been screwed", "we were the ONLY ones that could sell the property", "we were the GIFT to the seller and closed within a month (I am doing one monday--less than 3 weeks...no lies or BS or escape garbage--ALL CASH), ....yada yada yada. You state you are taking people through the houses. Sounds like brokering to me--legal or illegal depending on your license status (if any). If you are not licensed, you would never get away with that stuff unless you hide and operate hoping not to get caught. Those are the "quality" unlicensed broker criminals we have in Florida.
Dont tell me all this, go tell the people who are closing deals with attorneys if its illegal.
@Account Closed Trying to "remove the Realtor" from a deal where he or she has an exclusive right to sell could subject you to a tort known as "intentional interference with contractual relations".
I can promise you that if a wholesaler interfered with a sale of mine like that, I would file a civil suit in the blink of an eye.
The fact that you're even considering trying to screw the Realtor - taking the literal food off of his table for your personal gain - should make you stop and examine yourself and your values.
I know you're young and inexperienced. Perhaps this is just something you have not thought all the way through. But take the advice you've read here and reconsider how you want to work in this business.
Your reputation is at stake.
Thanks for your response.
My main question was how to find the owners name! LOL Not all the extra stuff everyone is talking about
NO ONE is trying to take food off no ones plate. Im just trying to figure out how do investors deal with houses that are on the market? Ive been to local REIA meetings where they bring it up here and there but never fully detailed information. They always say you cannot take a deal from a realtor from under their nose because youll get in trouble, I KNOW THIS! I think you guys think I dont know this since I was not very detailed in the initial post.. but they did say the only way to work with that house is if the realtor themselves willingly release it from the listing, which I dont think that is taking their food if they release it themselves, wait until the listing expires, or pay the commission. REIA did not go into detail about the commission part.
BUT if that listing expires which I plan on doing, then is it still taking food off her plate? I would not take a sale from someone behind their back. Everyone is freaking out on this forum. LOL But its definitely a lesson on my end to be more detailed in my post.
Lol Um thanks for your response. The name calling is a bit over board, Im still in the learning process and are willing to learn the 'dos and donts'... Im the furthest thing from a scammer so lets refrain from that. I would not do anything knowingly that would cause me to get into trouble with the law. I am just stating what I've been told here in Texas to do from an local investor...
With that being said I'll most likely wait until the listing expires and give this house to a rehabber because from the looks of it, it has been abandon for some time now. Id love to see this house blossom into its full potential. This house is in my neighborhood and I honestly would love to see it back in great condition.
Kind Regards.
A few thoughts....
FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS is ABSOLUTELY relevant. Lets look this over...
1. you stated you want to try and break up a contract between two parties ...a seller and broker...so that YOU can broker the deal. If a licensee, you would get your rear end in BIG trouble.
2. OK--you are new. I get it--everyone starts and learns as they go.
3. Now---you stated you want to broker the house. The term "wholesale" is a nice and innocuous--but in reality it IS brokering.
4. How WOULD you approach a seller. Would you sign a contract telling them you have NO intention of purchasing but want to broker the house for them? Isn't that EXACTLY what LICENSED agents do? So, your LISTING AGREEMENT would be DISGUISED as a purchase when IT WAS NOT. Is THAT honest?
5. Would a seller ACCEPT your offer and sign--knowing you have NO INTENTION of purchasing the house? I doubt it. This is why unlicensed FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS LIE to the seller and lead them to believe their house is sold--when in fact that is NOT THE CASE.
6. What do the FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS teach others to be successful FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS? To use BS escape clauses such as "subject to my partners approval" of "subject to inspection" with LONG inspection time frames. If they cannot find a buyer, they LIE to the seller and state it did not meet their "inspection criteria".
Here are some threads that are PERFECT examples of FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS teaching others to lie:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/139...
Note the person teach others to use BS escape clauses to get out of contracts.
Here is another:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/436...
They want to put properties under contract with NO INTENTION OF HONORING THEIR WORD.
So--do you intend to represent yourself as a buyer, and if you cannot assign, walk away? If so, you were NOT a buyer--you were a FRAUD AND SCAMMER.
You will find lots of advice in this business. Some good, some bad, some illegal, some unethical, and some outright DISHONEST.
Research FRAUD BY INDUCEMENT. We have a local unlicensed broker getting sued for that at this time.
How you choose to operate is up to you. Nobody can dictate that, but there are laws in place that may have an effect on your actions--either before you enter into a contract, or after.
BTW--Texas has new laws regarding unlicensed brokering and required disclosure. Each state is different. The way the FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS operate in FL is NOT legal..and many are finding out, getting a cease and desist with the state, or worse.
BTW--there are people that identify themselves as "wholesalers" that are FLIPPERS. They purchase and then resell with or without rehab.
Sorry, your feeling this way, but I will say you should try and go to an investor workshop. All the questions you're asking they've already answered. ...I never understood why people hate when someone wholesales, when literally hundreds has done it and were successful. If you dont like it then you should've never responded and take your negativity elsewhere, dont try and make others feel bad because you simply do not understand how the business works, because if you knew, you would not have all these questions and assumptions. Some people actually are very successful at wholesaling. Wholesaling is a strategy not a occupation. You cannot wholesale a pretty house. It is a useful tool for certain problems for the seller. Wholesalers mainly target preforcloused homes, vacant homes. Those are really where wholesale comes to play. It really helps those motivated sellers sell their house FAST!You're making a lot of assumptions about me that I wont entertain here, You're throwing out names and I legit haven't physically done anything with the house. LOL
Anyways- Yes we tell the seller our intentions. LOL no need to beat around the bush with it. You should always be honest about your intentions to the seller. We literally get the house inspected during our walk through. You ask the seller "Are you okay with this time frame" You have a team with you. Of course you find a buyer, and guess what..you bring the buyer with you as you both inspect it. Nothing is in contract yet. We are simply examining the house to see if its a house we can close on fast. But majority of my leads are not even connected to an realtor at all. I know an investor who walked in a house that that was vacant, absentee owner who were still paying payments on, they could not sell it...Guess what that investor did, wholesaled that house! He flipped that house. Got that absentee owner a check, got the rehabber a house to flip and got a tenant in there, and that investor got a check. I've seen wholesale deals close, I dont know how it can be a scam if there is an actual attorney involved at closing.
Some people dont want to pay realtor fees, some people do not want to wait months and months to sell the house. Which Ive seen and they go to an investor for other options. Thats were investors come in, examine their situation and decide how to fix their problem. You know those signs that says "WE BUY UGLY HOUSES" Yeah that is US! We help people, dont be so closed minded about investors, your literally letting money sit on the table.
A realtor and an investor are completely two different businesses. Im not a wholesaler, Im an investor. We use multiple strategies for multiple problems people may have. You can wholesale a vacant house, . I can tell your those people who arent into investing, but I know a few multi millionaires who became extremely successful at real estate investing, and I mean crazy rich, this man cashed a 40K check within a month.
Houses will get closed on, it should not take no longer than a month if you have a good deal. I meet so many at my local REIA, weather they did wholesale, sub to, house wrap, owner finance etc. An investor helped a friend of mine whose house was going to be foreclosed on, she couldn't get it to sell with an agent because it needed a lot of work. NO ONE wanted that house. So she actually had it subject to or wrapped around, cannot remember, which saved her from foreclosure( which foreclosure is the atomic bomb for credit.) Just imagine how she felt, she would have garnish wages, cannot buy a car, home etc.
I feel like your saying a lot of great things from a brokers stand point, but you fail to open your mind and educate yourself on other investing strategies. There is so much to real estate investing Id love to enlighten you on, but I simply do not have the time. I must say you really picked my brain sir with this one, but hey im just a newbie, what do I know!
Thanks for those articles. Ill give them a look.
Kind Regards! :)
@Account Closed yes the owner receives a check, however if the "retail" price is $250,000 (just an example, I don't know the kind of numbers your working with) maybe in their mind they want $250,000 for the house. Assuming you step in and want to wholesale it, you determine it needs $40,000 to get it to the retail price. Now in order for you to make any money by selling to a flipper, that flipper needs to pay roughly $160-165,000 so they can make their profit, after all of the holding and closing costs. In order for you, the wholesaler to make money, you need to offer in the $140-150,000 range... This seller who was thinking they could get $250,000 or close, is now being offered $140-150,000. It can't hurt to approach them, however I can't imagine them being open to that offer.
Good Luck with it though!
That completely makes sense. Ill try targeting a different lead in the meantime. Thank you!
@Account Closed the issue I think you will run into, is the fact that the owner probably wants retail price for the house. The listing agent may not be the one choosing the price, the owner might be. With that said, if you get to the owner behind the agent, they will most likely not be interested in you wanting to "buy" the house for a huge discount (so you can make money, and then the flipper can make money). Is it worth a shot? Maybe... However I would expect the owner to not be so responsive to your significantly reduced offer.
When wholesaling, doesn't the owner receives a check too? Maybe not as much as if it was for retail price...
If the agent cant sell it then Ill step in and help. Im sure the owner will hear me out if the agent was not able to sell after months, Im hoping they'll be more motivated to sell in that case...I waiting until the listing expires but I have a feeling I will I need access to the MLS for that information. In conclusion, if the owner does not want to reduce the price then ill just move on to the next lead but Ill never know unless I speak up and ask.
Thanks for your repsonse!
I completely forgot about using the Ft Bend Appraisal District site. Thank you for that.
I dont think I was very clear in my question, I wanted to keep it short --I wanted to know is there a way legally to get this property with all parties happy? What I've been told here in Houston is that if a property is listed with an agent I can either wait until the listing expires, get the realtor to release it, or have someone willing to pay for the commission. Ron Legrange said this, then he went on explaining tortious interference.
Ive attended a few of the local REIA meetings, Im literally the youngest in the room and I get all these different advice and tips and how to do things, It starts to get a little overwhelming because all the small details. I was NOT going to engage in the house until I had an end buyer/rehabber. (However in my case I actually meet a few amazing rehabbers who Im sure would love this house.) I would NOT get this house under contract with no intentions of closing with an end buyer, that would make me look unreliable to the seller and just a waste of everyones time. I do have a buyers list. I think everyone is taking my question way out of context but I appreciate the tough love. I guess I worded everything so wrong, should have been a bit more detailed. LOL
Ps. The reason I dont think the agent can sell it is because its listed as retail price and this house looks way too beat up for retail price in my opinion. But I will wait until the listing expires and see what happens.
But thank you so much for your advice Greg.
Lol Um thanks for your response. The name calling is a bit over board, Im still in the learning process and are willing to learn the 'dos and donts'... Im the furthest thing from a scammer so lets refrain from that. I would not do anything knowingly that would cause me to get into trouble with the law. I am just stating what I've been told here in Texas to do from an local investor...
With that being said I'll most likely wait until the listing expires and give this house to a rehabber because from the looks of it, it has been abandon for some time now. Id love to see this house blossom into its full potential. This house is in my neighborhood and I honestly would love to see it back in great condition.
Kind Regards.
Thanks for your response. I am aware of tortious interference, however I thought that did not apply if the owner gets the house removed from the listing willingly. Forgive me for I am a newbie and still learning.
Or Like @Andrew Johnson said, I can just wait until the listing expires and follow up with this deal which I think sounds more reasonable. Thank you for the positive response.