All Forum Posts by: Justin C.

@Garrett Crain congrats on your success with brrrr so far. Just wondering, what minimum down payment opportunities are you referring to for out of state rentals?

@Young Park totally agree regarding how important it is to choose the right individuals to work with in an out of state market. Did you know an agent in that market prior to getting started there? Did you know people (friends/family) there who were not agents?

@Alexander Szikla where do you like best within the NYC Burroughs for cash flow/appreciation right now? For non-house hack, rental investment property.

Hi everyone - I would love your suggestions on how to choose the right BRRRR market for one's own circumstances. I'd be particularly interested to hear from people who have done out of state BRRRR successfully in the past and what worked for you when determining which market to focus on.

I am located in a high cost city and will probably be investing outside of my city, therefore, there are tons of potential choices. I'm trying to take action to narrow down, but want to do so strategically. As such, I'm wondering which factors people think are most important in making this choice. The questions/points below come to mind but I'm open to any/all feedback. Thank you in advance.


Important to know someone in the area? There are some lower cost markets where I have friends/family in town. They aren't real estate investors but could still be there to provide an opinion on neighborhoods, make introductions, check up on properties, maybe stay with them when in the area. How important do you think this is vs investing in an area where you are a complete outsider/newbie if the numbers look better?

Typical age of property? I've seen some markets where most housing inventory is <10 years old and doesn't need work. Others where most inventory is 100-150+ years old and rehab might be a big undertaking / reveal hidden issues. Is it therefore important to choose a market where there is a high inventory of homes that are in some sweet spot - (maybe ~20-50 years old?), therefore more "ideal" BRRRR age?

Within driving distance or flying distance OK? Especially if you're new in a market and also are choosing somewhere without friends/family in that area. Or would you simply look at the whole country without any bias as to how far away from you it is.

Property tax rate? I found one market where I had family in the area, and the prospects as well as price/rent ratios looked pretty good. However, I kept digging and learned the taxes are really high for out of state investors (~4x vs a primary resident), which eats into cash flow a lot - as much as ~20% of rent. Would you simply rule this out and move on, or do you think it could still have merit?

Stability and rental demand. Do you trust where rents are today for any market, or do you worry that in certain areas the durability of these rents is less than in other markets? Any quick tips on assessing this?

Place where there are properties available at relatively low prices - making all cash purchase more realistic.

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Does anyone have tips on a good centralized place to find data on average rents (~20+ year history, ideally), population trends, largest employers, crime, housing supply etc for a given market?

I'd like to use this to compare markets but just general google/wikipedia doesn't always seem reliable or standardized enough.

Forgive me if this is an obvious question! Thanks for your help.

Hi everyone - I would love your suggestions on how to choose the right BRRRR market for one's own circumstances. I'd be particularly interested to hear from people who have done out of state BRRRR successfully in the past and what worked for you when determining which market to focus on.

I am located in a high cost city and will probably be investing outside of my city, therefore, there are tons of potential choices.  I'm trying to take action to narrow down, but want to do so strategically.  As such, I'm wondering which factors people think are most important in making this choice.  The questions/points below come to mind but I'm open to any/all feedback. Thank you in advance.


Important to know someone in the area?  There are some lower cost markets where I have friends/family in town. They aren't real estate investors but could still be there to provide an opinion on neighborhoods, make introductions, check up on properties, maybe stay with them when in the area. How important do you think this is vs investing in an area where you are a complete outsider/newbie if the numbers look better?

Typical age of property? I've seen some markets where most housing inventory is <10 years old and doesn't need work. Others where most inventory is 100-150+ years old and rehab might be a big undertaking / reveal hidden issues. Is it therefore important to choose a market where there is a high inventory of homes that are in some sweet spot - (maybe ~20-50 years old?), therefore more "ideal" BRRRR age?

Within driving distance or flying distance OK?   Especially if you're new in a market and also are choosing somewhere without friends/family in that area. Or would you simply look at the whole country without any bias as to how far away from you it is.

Property tax rate?  I found one market where I had family in the area, and the prospects as well as price/rent ratios looked pretty good.  However, I kept digging and learned the taxes are really high for out of state investors (~4x vs a primary resident), which eats into cash flow a lot - as much as ~20% of rent.  Would you simply rule this out and move on, or do you think it could still have merit? 

Stability and rental demand.  Do you trust where rents are today for any market, or do you worry that in certain areas the durability of these rents is less than in other markets?  Any quick tips on assessing this? 

Place where there are properties available at relatively low prices - making all cash purchase more realistic. 

That is exciting especially because it's right next to you.  In my opinion it really depends on your time horizon. If you're prepared to ride it out for 5-10 years then its probably hard not to do well. On the pro's side - appreciating market, and zooming out to the big picture there is a lot of room still to grow (airport expanding, tech companies etc).  Also interest rates are still low, and to my outside eye it seems the tenant base in Bozeman is very good, reasonable, mostly pays on time etc.  On the negative side, the market seems highly valued and one could argue further appreciation really relies on people from out of state continuing to move to the area.  It has also seen a rate of appreciation that one could argue isn't sustainable over a longer time (but who knows!).  Finally, interest rates are starting to go up which could slow down price growth.  We're definitely seeing signs of that in the stock market on highly valued stocks, and that is personally what makes me a little hesitant.  But -- amazing market and state!  I still wish I owned property there.   

 Thanks for the insight Wyatt. That's awesome on the house hack.  I wish that would have worked without being crazy expensive on the east coast.  Re:  Butte, I get a little worried about it being a mine focused town, could be really boom or bust right?   It seems more and more like airbnb is a viable strategy for people to enhance their returns in all kinds of markets.  

 Appreciate the info here and can see how things didn't go exactly according to plan.  I imagine you will still do well on your property though.  It seems there aren't many traditional multifamilies in the area, as a lot of properties are condos sold as single units still within a larger association right?  It seems that price range is extremely competitive yes!  I was out bid on something similar this yr. Finally that is a great point about the contractor costs & something I had not considered enough.

Hey Dylan thanks so much for your reply and congrats on your deal! I am not too familiar with Missoula, but the market seems interesting. How did you source that deal back in 2016? Did you feel confident in your estimates for the repairs and ARV, and did they play out vs your expectations?