All Forum Posts by: Jason Moore

Whoa, whoa, whoa there.... @Michael Glaser. Let's step back & look at this a moment. You mention "WYCO, KCK" in your post - so I assume you're talking about Wyandotte County? Not exactly Beverly Hills, but a good place for ROI if you know what you're doing. Focusing on the "not exactly Beverly Hills" of that statement - let's not forget that this individual is living in an asset (worth a good amount of money) that belongs to you. They're likely to be none-to-happy about being put out on the street with the recent judgment... so I'm not certain that notifying him/her when the Sheriff is coming is the best option? When I've had to take evictions all the way to Sheriff-assistance, I like to have the tenants be surprised to see me standing at the doorway with a uniformed Officer. I've found that Tenants don't like to live in filth, and don't like to live in residences that have been trashed beyond recognition.... but a tenant who knows exactly when the axe is falling??? Different story in my experience.

Getting back to the "not exactly Beverly Hills" comment - quite a few areas of Wyandotte can be "rough" as far as rentals... and being that you're an out-of-area investor - I want to make certain you're focusing your efforts on the right things for you. Have you actually filed the Writ of Execution for your judgment and received scheduling for the "door-knock" Eviction? This is different from the Court-mandated period for a tenant to comply with the judgment for possession. It sounds like this is the case, so I'll take you at your statements. To simply answer your questions - "Yes", each of the things you are asking are legal for you to do in this case... but I'm not sure they're the "best" thing for you to do. Quite simply, as a response to your inquiries:

1) I wouldn't notify him of the Sheriff appointment - it only serves to tell him the last possible minute he can remain at the property (and give him an idea of when he can trash it without consequence).

2) You can tell him to contact you... but I'm not sure you'll accomplish much here. If you know where he works, it's pretty simply to file for a garnishment of wages - but collecting on that is a different story.

3) Unless you're on very good terms with your "about to be evicted" tenant... don't try to show the unit. You only gain an extra 6 days, and you could be putting an unsuspecting lead into a volatile situation they're not prepared for.

Best of luck to you, but sounds like you're well on your way to having things handled. Cheers!

Hi @Sean Thompson. I'd actually recommend against going to the Section 8 office in person. Unless you have an appointment - you won't actually be able to speak with anyone about your issue (they're pretty strict about walk-in issues, and for good reason). This will only serve to waste valuable time, and you can be assured that the issues you raise with the front-office staff will not be sent to the appropriate channels. As far as getting no traction with your phone calls/emails - I understand completely. The HAKC is just.... not good about responsiveness (or doing their jobs properly in general). That's OK though.... what you're experiencing is not a "Section 8 issue", but rather a "Landlord-Tenant issue" - and you should handle it accordingly (without involving the HAKC). 

As for the water: best you continue paying this, as what @Kim Tucker has said is true - you'll be responsible for paying it regardless - so best not to let a large bill accumulate. Simply send the tenant a bill every month for the amount due, and continue to collect payment. As far as how to handle this in the future - I'll simply re-iterate what you've already been told (and what you've probably already learned), that you should get confirmation prior to Lease-signing that all utilities have been transferred into the tenant(s) name. 

As for the mowing, handle this much the same way - send a notice that grass has become too high to be within City Standards, and if it is not mowed within 48 hours you will mow it. Then.... mow it. Each time you mow, send the tenant an invoice for work performed - and keep a running balance. Once that balance has become sufficiently high - send the tenant a 3-day Pay/Quit notice, and if the balance is not paid - file for eviction. This will cost you a bit of money (use a lawyer, please), but I guarantee you that once the tenant has been served with a summons to appear in Court - the phone calls/emails will start pouring in (from your Tenant & their Program Specialist with the HAKC). That's OK... because you'll be on the right side of the law in everything you've done thus far. I don't care that the Tenant "overlooked" the section about lawn care when signing the Lease Agreement. I don't care that they're disabled (no, I'm not a horrible person - and neither are you) - they're a functioning adult capable of making their own decisions... and they signed on the dotted line. That's a legally-binding Contract that will be held up in Court all day long. A Judge will agree that the tenant is responsible for reimbursing you the costs of lawn care, and that it is a perfectly valid cause for eviction (non-payment of outstanding costs). 

Please don't be afraid to track this situation accordingly, and file for eviction if necessary. I've got a great local attorney that's fantastic at what he does, and I've handled the exact situation you're in. PM me for additional advice if you're concerned. Bottom line - you are in the right (stay that way), and your tenant is in the wrong... a Court will see that plain as day if it comes to it. My guess is that it won't - 99% of Section 8 tenants "play ball" when faced with a potential Court proceeding or the loss of their Voucher. 

Ultimately, this sounds like small potatoes in the grand scheme of things... but I get that my small potatoes may be a giant thorn in the side to you. Be mindful of the Law, adhere to your Lease - and don't be afraid to enforce it if necessary. Cheers!

@Daniel Gupta - Just so you don't think I've ignored the post entirely. I'm sorry - but I just don't agree that Renter's Insurance would have covered the damages that you're speaking of. Your Insurance should cover this (assuming you've insured the unit as a rental), and it's possible that your Insurance Agent is hoping that another Entity will cover the costs? Ultimately, Insurance Co's are in the business of profit after all (not that they necessarily should be). 

Check with your PM to see if they have a Dec. page of the renters Insurance Policy. That said... this is more of a check to see if your PM is doing what they've agreed to do - rather than something that might help you in this situation. 

Sounds like a crappy situation, but if you're fairly confident that you'll be unable to collect from the tenant - I'm not sure that I see you having much more luck collecting from the PM. Depending on the size of your deductible, it may just be something that you'll have to "grin and bear".

Sorry to hear about your struggles, cheers!

@Nathan Gesner, but unless I'm mis-understanding something here (which is entirely possible)... I have to say that I think you're off-base on this one.

Cheers!

Hi Sean,

So this is a topic I've discussed with potential Clients many times when they approach me with similar issues.... why would you feel the need to evict this individual? Better yet, why do you feel powerless against this individual? There's no need to resort to such hasty solutions as eviction. From the sound of things (managed until recently by uncle/10 times late in the past year), this is a long term tenant? I.E. - a tenant who is currently on a monthly lease?

Simply serve them with a Notice of Continued Lease Violation, and as a result of this Continued Violation - a 30-day Notice to Vacate the Premises. #1: There's no reason for you to stress yourself out as Owner/Manager about a tenant who refuses to follow your procedures, when you can simply replace this individual with a better-quality tenant. #2: (This is the kicker)... You'd be surprised at the number of tenants who immediately "play ball" when faced with their walking papers.

A legal Eviction is something that costs time & money (and often requires an Attorney if you're Owning/Managing under an LLC). But a 30-day Notice to Vacate is just that - an amicable termination of the Lease Agreement. If at the end of that 30 days, the tenant refuses to vacate - most states allow you to seek twice the monthly rent in legal damages (more than you could get under a normal eviction).

The point being - make this tenant aware that there's a "new Sheriff" in town. Not a mean or nasty Sheriff by any means... simply one that expects all parties to honor the obligations they agreed to upon signing the Lease Agreement (grown-ups who sign Contracts have to honor Contracts like grown-ups). If he/she refuses to work within the boundaries of the Lease Agreement - there's no reason to continue the relationship. The same holds true with the painting of the exterior - this is your property, not theirs. It's not difficult to remind them of this so long as you remember that the law - when used appropriately - is on your side (the law which allows you to tell them: "thank you for your time as tenant... best of luck to you in the future.")

The next time you communicate with this individual be friendly, be courteous - but by all means... be the Owner.

Cheers.

@Cody McCraw I'll also chime in with the obligatory (not a lawyer), but keep in mind that while what @Shaun Patterson says about spouses being on the hook for debts incurred while married may be true - here in Missouri, disability payments are a 100% non-garnishable payout to the receipient. Even assuming you were able to file against the wife, and take it all the way to a judgment - unless she wins the lottery or finds a well-paying job (unlikely), you won't see a dime of repayment from her. 

In my experience it's fairly rare for individuals in this particular situation to jeopardize a disability payment by attempting to better their situation through employment. Not saying it's unheard of - just that you need to consider the odds in the face of potential legal/time cost to you. 

I really wish I could offer some better advice, or tell you that there's a solution out there for you - ultimately... I think this may be one of those things that just... suck. Bankruptcies aren't a "simple" solution for people. It deals a significant blow to their credit, their ability to obtain financing/housing/auto loan/etc. This isn't a situation that they'll escape from unscathed. Yes - you get the short end of their "I got out of my debts" stick - but it's definitely not a stick they're going to be happy holding for the foreseeable future. If it helps, during the few times I've had to deal with situations like this, I remind myself this:  Every day I get to wake up being me. And each of those days, they have to wake up being... them.

Cheers.

Hi Angela,

My company is based in the Kansas City area (started here, not a franchise), and we know the area well. Feel free to PM me for more information if you think I can be of help.

Cheers.

Hi @Cody McCraw,

Typed up a response to your query without realizing you've already had possession of the home returned. EDIT: Agree with above posters - you're unlikely to receive any compensation on a potential judgment, as the bankruptcy will likely wipe out that potential debt for tenant. The hearing you have scheduled will effectively be nullified, and you will unfortunately be lumped in as a "Creditor" along with others who will be entitled to pennies on the dollar for collections (assuming you continue to pursue the debt). 

This one sucks, but the only option you have is reaching out to a bankruptcy Attorney yourself - to learn of the options at your disposal. It may not be worth pursuing much beyond a phone call for information. Sorry to hear about the issues you're having.

Cheers.

Hi Amy,

Man... I wish I knew how to quote your post & answer bullet-by-bullet like @Jeff B. did - I know that format is really helpful. Here's my sad attempt to replicate :(

- 12 Month Term: I have a provision *similar* to this in my Agreement (not quite as stringent though). Basically it's designed to protect me from the differentiation between a Leasing Agent and a Property Manager. A Leasing Agent will typically charge you quite a bit more than a Manager to place a new tenant in your property. The idea of an Agent is that it's a 1-time fee, for work performed. A Manager will typically place a tenant for significantly less - because the Agreement is that they will continue to make a percentage of the rent managing the home. I don't want someone hiring me to Manage the property (and have me place a tenant at a discounted rate) - only to cancel the Agreement the minute I place a qualified applicant. My Agreement requires the Client to reimburse me a certain amount if canceled within the 1st year (without cause). That reimbursement amount.... you guessed it - equivalent to what a Leasing Agent would have charged. Check with the company to see if this is their reasoning.

- Repairs Clause: Totally reasonable. Emergency repairs are emergency repairs - not only are they necessary (see "emergency"), but it keeps you out of trouble if the Manager can't reach you, and is still able to do what's necessary. It's not necessarily about developing trust (which is absolutely important), but rather doing what is in your best interests.

- Showing & Advertising: I'm going to combine these 2, because in my mind they're the same thing - a Leasing Fee. This should be 1 transparent number, period. Regardless of how long it's listed, regardless of the number of showings, regardless of the advertising avenues used - a good Manager should have all those costs built into 1 reasonable fee.

- Lease Discounts: Gotta be honest, I'm not a fan of this. Grown-ups sign binding Contracts. Those Contracts require specific things. If Grown-up "A" doesn't honor his/her obligation (rent payment), then grown-up "B" can take action to remedy. The rent is the rent, it's a valuation of what the home is worth monthly - and I see no reason to offer a discount because a tenant does what they're obligated by Contract to do. That's just me... sorry.

- Assigning the Agreement: NO. *I'm not sure I've ever bolded a comment on here before - feels like I'm shouting :)   In no way is this OK by any stretch in my opinion. I'm an open-minded person, so I'm willing to listen to the reasoning behind adding it - but I can't imagine a scenario in which I would find it OK.

- Commission on Sale: This one is tricky... Is the Manager a licensed RE Agent? Are they assisting in any way with the transaction? If the answer to both of these questions is "yes" - they may be entitled to reasonable compensation. They did find the tenant, so I suppose there could be some rationale to them "bringing the Buyer to the table" (but now that I've typed this and re-read - I feel like they've met their responsibility to Lease the home... and were appropriately compensated for that based upon Agreement terms). Hmmm... Ultimately, it took me writing this out and reviewing it to see what the reasonable advice is... NO - I do not think they should get a commission if the tenant chooses to purchase. The Manager was compensated for placing a qualified tenant based on the terms outlined in the Management Agreement. Assuming that compensation was given - that transaction has been completed. A tenant choosing to purchase your home after that fact, would in my opinion be considered the beginning of a new transaction - between you & them. If this is the case, the Manager has no basis for demanding additional compensation. That said, if the Manager assists you in any way with this new transaction (think drawing up the Contract, scheduling inspections, etc.) - I think *some* compensation (not sure about 5%) would be reasonable.

All in all, a tough call for you. Good Managers are hard to come by - if you've received glowing reviews... I can see your dilemma. Best of luck in whatever choice you make.

Cheers.

I suppose it depends on a combination of the issues you're having - and the expectations you've set with your Manager. Are these maintenance issues which fall above a certain threshold that requires you to be notified? Are they issues of tenant placement that your Manager wants to be sure you're aware of? If either of these are the case - it could be an attempt of your Manager to simply be as transparent as possible. Perhaps your Manager feels that you're a Client who wants a certain level of engagement.

How long have you owned the 4plex? Did you recently purchase it and it came with its fair share of issues? Did you reach out to a professional Manager after dealing with a myriad of issues yourself? I once took over contracts for a Client with 30 properties which were poorly managed for several years. Unfortunately.... regular conversations were necessary for the first several months while everything was being sorted through.

A bit more information would be helpful to understand if your expectations are reasonable.

Regardless, communicate your thoughts to your Manager. Ultimately, if you want to be "hands off" - you should absolutely expect the luxury of being hands off - it is what you are paying for after all. If your Manager isn't receptive to an open dialogue about expectations - that would be the bigger concern in my book.

Cheers.